The Creative Mindset

[Music]

Zeke: I want to welcome everyone to another episode of the Let’s Gather Podcast. I’m your host Zeke. And in this episode, my friend Isaac:, to discuss the creative process of making film and writing poetry. You can follow his Instagram @insteadofsaac, where you see some of his poetry and some of his life.

Zeke: For the first question I like to ask is what would your origin story be?

Isaac: Ah origin story. Ask tough first question.

Zeke: So you can choose any medium you want to.

Isaac: Yeah, um, I think I’ll have to go with a film straight up. I don’t like to read personally. I don’t read that much. It takes me a long time to read. And I wouldn’t go with like that’s why I wouldn’t go to book Yeah. I wouldn’t go away like a show because my daily life it really isn’t that interesting. The producer probably stressing out. Like yo this dude take the same rout to school every day. Same thing happen every day. So the show is out the picture. And I like film so films are always just like it. Something I’ve always been interested in. So I’ll go with a film. And because you want to know like what would be in Yeah. To be real for like, I’m still in my origin story. So I think like, I’m not I’m not at the point where like it’s finished or whatever I feel like I’m sort of just in my opinion, I’m sort of just getting into the groove. I’m getting to that like,

Zeke: It’s like a 10 minute part of the movie when you first get the action like this is what we this is what we’re talking about.

Isaac: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, we came into that exactly the strong punch. Yeah, again, I want to get your attention. That’s why I feel like I’m at right now. But to go backwards, I guess, you know, movies like start with that and then going back into the past that like I would say my origin story be start with like, a lot of like, family family oriented stuff. I grew up in a good family. Basically, everything was smooth going through school going through elementary High School. Um, but I was just sort of like reflecting. And I realized that, you know, hindsight is like 2020. Looking back, I’m like, you know, there was some things you you kind of like you kind of had to go through. So I was looking at, I was thinking about high school and I went to high school that was kind of like, a little bit racist. I was like, the only black kid in all my classes. And the school was mostly white. And there’s a lot of like, subtle subtle jabs that I kind of look back and I think like we, that wasn’t really, I wasn’t really all that good. Um, so I think going through that, going through basketball, playing ball competitively, basically all through high school program. I think coming into college where I start to like, sort of become more me. Yeah. Like trying different things engaging with different people. So that’s what I picked up by the sort of photography. I jumped out real quick. So I picked up photography. I started writing poetry little by little. And then also taking sort of a next step. We like filming videos. So origin story sounds kind of boring. I think it’ll pick up I think I’m still you know, in that stage, you know? Exactly.

Zeke: Seeing who the characters are.

Isaac: Yeah.

Zeke: The personality types, obviously have all connect with them.

Isaac: Exactly as they’re introducing characters to meet new people.

Zeke: Yeah, for sure. So, with that, you also talked a lot about your family and film so what kind of film What? When did you know that you like film?

Isaac: Um, the first time I made a video was in elementary school. Um, and really what happened was my brother wanted a highlight tape for basketball. He was in college, he’s playing on Division Two basketball, and he was looking to transfer. So he wanted to highlight tape that was before like, Oh, this ball is life and my mixtape before cameras were just like everywhere. So he had some tape on on, on like, some file somewhere and he’s like, Yo, I need you to figure this out. And I’m like, I’m like, how am I 11 or 12. But he kind of knew like my personality. And I like to I like to solve puzzles and yeah, so I looked at that and I’m like, Alright, this is time that let’s go figure this out. Because you know, around that time my older brother younger brother, my older brother, he’s five years older than me. Um, so and I had seen like, a lot of YouTube videos like, you know, mixtapes were popping in but like for like NBA players and stuff. So like watching like Allen Iverson tapes and Stephon Marbury and or Jason Kidd, watching him tapes a lot. So I seen like, I watched those those videos and I’m thinking like, Yo, I could do that. So that was kind of like the prelude to him asking me, um, and then basically I had to I started working on it I was working on it for a long time when he’s beat down laptop that like, if you unplug, it would turn off tell you I’ll using his laptop. So I was just learning I just basically taught myself I’m just playing with things and I’ll show you how to make a highlight to put it together for him. He liked it. He was he was we were working together collaborating, like oh, could this this clip a little short? Make sure you show this part like this highlight for them. Put this song on there, and it just came together. videos on YouTube still today. So you know, that was where I got into like, I guess video editing. Yeah. And then from there, um, it wasn’t really Actually, I did two more highlight tapes. I did highlight tape anonymously. I got paid for it.

Zeke: Word making money at 12.

Isaac: Yeah, actually my high school. Four years passed. I went through high school and I was like, into my senior. And then I had a friend who had like a connect to somebody who’s playing with a you. And I happen to be planning against this dude during the season. So I already knew who he was and homie, he was like, he played middleman. He’s like, yo, you know, I got a friend who makes tapes, and he did that whatever. So I did a highlight tape for a competitor of mine basketball anonymously, and I made $100 probably shoot me more but that’s okay. It’s a good start a good start. Good start. And then I made I’m also that senior in high school. I made one for my friend and family another one. So I made three highlight tapes, my senior year. So I think that was also like, like the ball rolling you know going to college so when I got to college I started to look at it more of like, Yo filmmakers the films that we’re all watching everybody’s watching films everybody loves them I like them. The filmmakers are using the same techniques to edit films that I’m using on these like basically you know, little kid making a highlight tapes, I’m like the same editing techniques, they could just be taken and applied to different genre of video. So I was looking at that and I’m like, this is kind of interesting because I’ve started transitioning out of basketball I stopped playing I didn’t really want to be around it as much so I’m like, what am I doing I like tips for this is just bring them back. It’s like me staying in the past. Yeah, so so I’m getting interested in like film. I just started watching a whole bunch of YouTube videos on like filmmakers, how they think the mindset behind it, the mindset behind editing. And then I just started started working from there like, I think really what was sort of like a turning point it was I made a video with my brother we collaborated and it was short two minute video but it was like um it’s like a love letter to basketball so we worked on that and I was really to that turning point from like highlight tapes to like film related content I think that’s how I started I started I just started just having started teaching myself stuff and just having.

Zeke: So you’ve made film before so to make movies all that before like, they became bigger and everything everything was really choppy.

Isaac: Yeah, I used Windows Movie Maker so nobody who’s I don’t think anybody who’s using Final Cut or like Adobe I’m just this little boy in a hot room. Broken laptop making video making a video So yeah, I guess I did kind of learn before it got like really popped in before everybody is on YouTube and everything like that.

Zeke: So so that what would you say is your favorite film is, wait what is the difference between a film and movie?

Isaac: Oh, same thing.

Zeke: Same thing,

Isaac: Same thing.

Zeke: So people say film, sounds like more educated.

Isaac: Sounds better.

Zeke: Word it sounds better.

Isaac: Yeah. Well the term film comes from like the actual film. Yeah. Um, but basically like, films movie.

Zeke: So what would you say your favorite movies is?

Isaac: Good question ahh, I had actually made a list on my phone because when people ask me about favorites, I always forget let me think. I’m going to start rattling off movies. I like Creed, Creed one.  Yeah.  I love that movie. Little no movie that I love is Hardball. I’m not sure if you heard of that as it’s like,

Zeke: No,

Isaac: He’s ah. So I think it’s based off a true story. And it’s like these kids in Chicago, in the Southside of Chicago playing baseball, and their coaches, a white guy that just came in. He was initially like, not really interested in coaching. But now he’s working with these kids and you start to really like them. Get involved with their lives. So interesting story. I like that film, Fruitvale Station. I like that movie. What else? Coach Carter? I like that movie.

Zeke: I was thinking about that one too.

Isaac: You was thinking about that?  Yeah, I like I like real stuff. Like, sort of like, it could be fictional, but like something I sort of like imitate in real life.

Zeke: Yeah, it’s possible, like, similar to like feel good movies.

Isaac: Yeah. Yeah. Well, not always feel good. It could be sad.

Zeke: Feel sad.

Isaac: Yeah. Fruitvale is sad. That’s really sad. Um, but I guess like something that’s like portray like the realness of life, kind of like,

Zeke: Like a reflection of your life or the things you see around you.

Isaac: More of the things I see around me, yeah more things I’ve noticed and seen around me, and something that sort of I could relate to. Yeah, maybe I might not have happened to me, but the fact that I’ve seen You know or I’ve thought about it yeah I think those kind of like hit home for me. Yeah. Um, I can keep naming stuff. I like The Incredibles too yeah like The Incredibles I like you know those type of movies too I think like I think what really catches me is um I guess good storytelling good storytelling yeah really captures in Incredibles is like a great great storyteller like they like weave it all together like it’s I like that.

Zeke: Every every decision had a reaction.  Yeah.  Um, affected what happened in the present?

Isaac: Yeah,

Zeke: Future.

Isaac: Yeah, there’s no there’s no wasted there’s no wasted seams. No wasted seconds. No like that. Yeah, I’m gonna stop there. Talk about more film.

Zeke: Yeah, like Dark Knight.

Isaac: Oh, that’s a good one.

Zeke: You got a Winter Soldier.

Isaac: Okay, I have I seen that before?

Zeke: The first Iron Man,

Isaac: Okay.

Zeke: I like these more action, too.

Isaac: Yeah,

Zeke: Like some of the animes more some sort anime like Death Note but like is more action like Shōnen. Dragon Ball z and all that stuff?

Isaac: Yeah, gotcha. So [inaudible] those popin to

Zeke: Word Disney got everything.

Isaac: Yeah man they own everything taking over the world.

Zeke: Going to own the podcast, what.

Isaac: Thats a plug you trying to get bought out, Zeke trying to get bought out. Like show me the cash.

Zeke: So you also studied in accounting and stuff like that so do you have more of an analytical mind become things or do you?

Isaac: I’m still figuring it out I think I think I’m a weird mix of like, analytical and creative.

Zeke: Yeah, the same mix.

Isaac: Yeah, you got that too.

Zeke: Yeah, I’m really good at math like if you give me numbers I got you, if you give me something to create I also got you.

Isaac: Yeah, yeah, I’m the same way. I’m the same way. I think what I’ve noticed is what I’m not. I’m doing a master’s in Information Systems. Yeah. So just to get that, right. But accounting was something I was sort of, like, just good at in terms of classes. Yeah. I wouldn’t say I like it. I don’t like it that much. And like, based off like, the experience I work in as well. I’m like, this isn’t this isn’t enough creativity. For me. Even though I’m doing even though I’m good at analytical stuff. It’s not creativity for me. Um, and in terms of like creativity in business, I like to think like, high level, I like to think of like, what’s the big picture? What are we trying to do? What’s our mission? Like, how can we craft this business model in a creative way to make money How can we also serve people I like to think like, high level, I’m not more of a person that’s like into details as much like so I think that’s really funny.

Zeke: Yes. Somebody else could just like figure out like, we’re here right now. This is the angle. Some of us can figure out how we get there.

Isaac: Yeah, yeah, I think I’m more of that type of guy. So that’s the cross between the two. In a way, I think I might end up using like accounting to sorta, I might spring into another career options here.

Zeke: To like, it gives you the money that you need to feed your passion.

Isaac: Right. True, true as well. Definitely. So I don’t think it was, I don’t think I’m necessarily like one or the other creative or, like analytical. I think I can find a cross between the two. And I can kind of like, take me forward.

Zeke: Yeah. Me more like I use my analytical skills to like, create things. Yes. I don’t know. I’m not gonna remember all the things that we can do. Right. But I know how to solve problems.

Isaac: Right, right. Yes.

Zeke: So like I’m still using those skills.

Isaac: Yeah, I think I’m actually kind of similar in that way. Cuz I create like creation and creating thing that takes a lot of analytical stuff like, behind the scenes of all your ideas, you got to actually do it.

Zeke: And look at it and see it from a different perspective. Yeah, how can I? Cuz somebody was cool the banana thing. People see a banana but that person seen money,

Isaac: Right. Oh, you tell me about that. Yeah, gallery. Yeah. Yeah. I still see a banana but yeah, you’re right. You’re right. That’s crazy. Yeah, yeah.

Zeke: Or like how some people see clouds while others see shapes out of clouds.

Isaac: Right, right. True. True. Yeah. And you know that’s funny like yeah, that’s interesting because I look at I think everybody is different. Yeah. Um, and sometimes I’ll look at something and get an idea. And somebody else might look at it and be like, No, it’s just whatever. Yeah, and I think that kind of feeds like probably more to poetry that right thing and film. Yeah, definitely feels like my creative like thoughts in general. Yeah. Yeah, Does that like, does that like feed. So with like design. Is it like? Do you feel like when you’re working on something, you can kind of like, like bounce between, like the creative part and the analytical part, but then like, sort of lose that creative part in a way. That question don’t makes sense. But like, you ever find yourself like getting lost in like the details? Yeah. Yeah.

Zeke: And you just like you want it to be perfect, but like, you’ll never get perfect.

Isaac: Right. Right. That’s, that’s one of my issues. Right? Right. Like, especially with film, yeah. Honestly, nothing I ever made was a in my opinion.

Zeke: Yeah, cuz when I make flyers. I hate all of them. I hate most of them. Yeah, I’m just like, there’s so many things I wanted to do. I couldn’t do this.

Isaac: Like, I’m the same way, Yo, I like my films like, or whatever videos I ever made. I just when I watch I see every flaw.

Zeke: You see every mistake,

Isaac: And I’m like watching it and I’m just like, sweating. Watching. I’m like, yo, that’s bad. I should say something.

Zeke: Word I used to hate when people would read my writing, I would have to walk out cuz I can’t

Isaac: Yeah, cuz you just see every mistake. Um, I think something I feel like I’m still trying to learn is it can’t be perfect and everything, take the lesson move on and apply it.

Zeke: But I definitely have to like middle school we had to make the a map. And I hated the map 97 on it because I did everything I’m supposed to do. Yeah. And like the teacher said it was good but I see. But it was even more of a mess. Right? Right. It’s like a mess of ideas.

Isaac: Yeah. Yeah. I think in a way that it’s like a balance because that could feed like you. Your drive. Yeah. And could also hold you back. And I think we got to find that middle ground like the in between know,

Zeke: The um filmmaker Peter McKinnon. He said like just getting out is better than not having anything.

Isaac: Yeah, for sure. That’s been that’s been washed over. Yeah. Like I I hadn’t released hadn’t even made a YouTube channel. I Like, I guess I’ll call it my own besides like, you know, the Gmail, YouTube. I didn’t make that until January of this year. And I’ve been making videos basically since I was like, 11. Yeah. So, definitely, you know, like the struggle of like putting stuff out for people to see. And even now, I don’t really market my stuff that much. You know, I keep everything really low key, but I feel like there’s a point where I’m just gonna, like, you know,

Zeke: Unveil the masks, here I am.

Isaac: Yeah. And I’m hoping I’ll just have like content for days. I’m just like, you’re just throwing it out like pom pom I  made this seven years ago, but it’s fire still it’s timeless, timeless.

Zeke: I see. Exactly. They going to write papers on me. Yeah,

Isaac: I mean, that would be dope. That be dope.

Zeke: Somebody make a book um like an autobiography, like the moves you made.

Isaac: Yeah. And I and you know, when they make these movies or books, they like, look at every little detail like, you know, he took this inspiration from his mom that one time thing I dang, I didn’t know I took that inspiration from my mom.

Zeke: It’s more like a reflection. He saw seeing things, noticing things that Oh, that’s what I got it from. Exactly. Yeah, but connection to. And then earlier you mentioned like poetry or having some of the stuff to do with culture and things like that. In your background.

Isaac: Yeah. Um, yeah, poetry. poetry, it’s hard to explain, I don’t think is I think it’s kind of like subtle. Like, I think it just most of the time, it just comes out of me. Yeah, it’s actually easier for me to write a poem than to write I mean to than to make a film, because it’s just sort of just comes out and I just start rearranging the words so but it could be about really about anything. I think maybe I’m just thinking I think I know which poem you read that was about like culture,

Zeke: Food or so stuff like that.

Isaac: Food Yes.

Zeke:  And a spoon.

Isaac: Yeah so I think I had a friend tell me like, Oh, I can see your style through the poem that you wrote. And I started to look like closer at my stuff. I’m like, Oh, I kind of think I kind of take like, these mundane, like, like everyday things, I kind of look at them a different way. And I was suddenly I tried to, like suddenly put like, meanings and stuff behind me. So if you read it, you would, you would understand it. But if you read it again, maybe you’d understand a little bit more a little bit deeper. I don’t know if that comes through the poems. I don’t know if that’s how you feel about it. But at least that’s how I look at it when I write. But to be honest, I don’t really think that hard about it. So it just comes out. Yeah. And I think that’s why I kind of enjoy the balance between poetry and film. Because I’m, like film it actually is pretty, like gruesome. For me. It’s hard. Like, I’m like, it’s like, I think poetry just comes a lot easier like film. I just I’m like cutting in. I’m cutting. I’m like moving and I’m like, I’m like yo this is not working out like Like, basically like grinding my head on, like, yo, the poetry is so I like this thing like, someone’s like, there’s no wrong answer. You know, for me, it’s like, whatever you put, I can make it better. Yes. Like, there’s no there’s almost no wrong answers like there’s free creative expression, but we’re like films, it’s like, I should cut that a little bit a little bit shorter. And I can see that, you know, and some people might be able to see that. But that poetry is like the free to freedom I like about it.

Zeke: With poetry for me it’s more, like, I can’t get too deep because I I’m very blunt and very, to the point. Yeah. So that they have to double entendre that has a double meaning a lot of hard work for me.

Isaac: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think yeah, I think this is where, you know, people are different. Because when I first I think, when I first wrote a poem, or the first I guess, I call it my first poem, it’s not really my first poem. I’ve written some stuff in the past. Yeah, that I think of probably failures. You know? The first poem that I got published by encounters magazine at Baruch when I wrote it, I I was like, you know, anybody could write this. That was my thought, like, you know, so I didn’t think I was necessarily a poet from name I’m liking I wrote a poem. Some people liked it. Somebody liked it. Yeah. And, and I started, like, everything I wrote, I’m like, you know, this, he could have wrote this, any random dude on the street could have wrote this. Um, but I think I had to realize that, you know, everybody has different strengths, and some people don’t even like, like writing anything. Exactly. So me like for this to just kind of like come out of me. It means a little bit. I should take it a little bit more seriously. Or I should like, put a little bit more work into it. You know, so yeah, definitely. I feel like I’m on Sway in the Morning it’s like if you go Sway and you’re a rapper, right? You got a rap. Yeah. Feel like I gotta share a poem. That was exactly yo know,I might I might do it man, I might do it.

Zeke: That way for me creating is like, I have trouble trusting the audience that they won’t get what I’m trying to say. With flyers it’s hard to work with words. Like, how many words do I put, how big should the words be? Will they see it will their eyes, will their eyes track.

Isaac: Yeah. Yeah, the same problem. Yes, actually. Um, so that first poem one day, it was extremely complicated. It was like, it was so complex. And I think after I wrote it, and after it got published, I was reading it. I’m like, Yeah, I don’t think anybody’s gonna understand this. And I’m like, yo, it’s just too much. It’s too deep. And it’s like, it’s, and that was that was kind of tough. And I think after actually adjusting my style a little bit, I’m like, I want to make it More plain, like more clear to understand. But still even that, like, you know, people aren’t in my head. Yeah, so I think that’s definitely,

Zeke: Might be. Yeah, yeah. Or like something completely of you. So that was my heels. Exactly, exactly.

Isaac: So I think it just constantly like putting out there like, like every artist from the past, they just put it out there not necessarily hoping someone would understand. But I guess that’s expression. And then I guess having that hope that knowledge is that somebody is one person that will understand and gain meaning from it. So, I think I think that’s where I kind of, I kind of reached like, you know, somebody’s gonna understand at least one person going to understand. Or at the very least, I know what it means. Yeah. So yeah, I think that’s what it is. Yeah. And also just like, writing, you could write it in a beautiful way. Yeah. And people will appreciate it even if they don’t even understand what you’re talking about.

Zeke: This sounds nice. With spanish music I don’t know what’s going on.

Isaac: Exactly,

Zeke: But it sounds nice so I’m a vibe with it.

Isaac: Exactly. I was just about to  go to music like you can listen to music in an complete different language and you bopping in your head like

Zeke: Yeah start singing along, like I don’t know what their saying. Yeah.

Isaac: So that kind of I kind of took that as like a challenge like, well, no matter what I’m writing, try to write it in a beautiful way. Yeah, if you if you just read it like, Oh, that sounds nice or like, feel like there’s something here. I want to know what it means.

Zeke: Like, this sounds lit it sounds nice.

Isaac: That’s half the music right now. boppity boutique. So

Zeke: Somebody that’s so simple, but like, you didn’t, the um person criticizing didn’t think of the flow.

Isaac: Exactly. Exactly.

Zeke: So still, it’s still the person who made the flow is still an artists.

Isaac: Definitely. Definitely. Yeah. And I think it’s crazy. I like are kind of like, like speaks to each other like, yeah, that music. I’m taking influence from music in that way. And I’m taking influence on poetry and film and it’s just like, all kind of like mixes and talks to each other. Yeah. So I think I relate to music in terms of like people understanding the work. I think I kind of grew out of like, like, match what nobody understands. Yeah. Yeah.

Zeke: You ever feel like you have to top yourself. Like, the next one has to be better than this one.

Isaac: Yes. Yes. Pulling out all the insecurities.

Zeke: LASO with the salt bae then I made the second one um the day of the dead like those to the my best. Like, what’s next? Yeah, to say? Yeah,I use all my ideas.

Isaac: Yeah, it’s like a fear that your best is behind you. Yeah, I have that same, same thing. Um, yeah, that same thing, but almost like, whenever I complete the next thing, I’m like, Yo, this is the best one. Even though it’s not perfect, this this is the best one still. Yeah, like this is, I think there’s always like, even if even if I think something previous is like better, there’s always at least one quality. Yeah, of the new poem or the new film. I’m like, Yo, I like how I did that. Um, that that’s something I need to do more build on. So yeah, I definitely know what you’re talking about, though. It does always feel like the best is behind you. Yeah. Yeah.

Zeke: Like me, every great idea was one point. Yeah. You don’t want to copy yourself. Yeah, like, that’s your.

Isaac: Yeah, right, right. True. True. But I don’t know. For me, I feel like in a way, even if I feel like I’m copying, something always changes. Okay. So, like, there’ll be times where I’m I’m writing a similar poem to the past like this. It’s kind of similar, but then I don’t know after a while. Just working with it, it becomes a new a new thing. Yeah, I’ve seen like, they had like studying art and stuff and paintings. A lot of these dudes was doing the same thing. I can’t tell the difference. He put the square over here this time, so you know, I think is is just keep going, man. I mean, that’s that’s the magic to my style. All right, let’s keep going keep going. Even if you did the same thing 10 times buy the 11th time you know something’s gonna be different, you know.

Zeke: With me like I like to do like a blurry background and the foreground. Having something to focus on you know, it’s like the same technique here. Each image is different right? It’ll give it the display a different message.

Isaac: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

Zeke: Yeah, be creative. That is, yeah, people think is easy. It’s hard. Yeah,

Isaac: I had to learn to respect musicians. Like really I used to, I used to be like a tough critic. I’m like, yo, your song wack song wack. But the fact that someone can complete a song is I think is an accomplishment. And, like, I like low key I ain’t tell nobody this but I did a track one time. Had a friend he’s like yo, I got a beat. I listen to and he was like  hope on the track. I was trash yo I was so trash.

Zeke: You was in the studio like yeah and then you heard yourself like what.

Isaac: I knew I was trash as I was doing it. So i’m like yo, my, yo, this is so hard. I can’t even I can’t even get on the beat the right time. And I’m like, I can’t even stay with a good flow. So I learned to respect musicians. Yeah, like the my voice I’m like, oh my gosh. Right, like so I learned to respect musicians. Um, I don’t even know where I was going with that. Only to respect it. Like musicians in that way, and I know that that’s not my thing, for sure. But yeah, like just respecting art in general. I kinda I learned to respect it. I look at stuff I’m like if I don’t get it I think it’s ugly. Somebody made that except the banana thing i’m not vibing with that with a duct tape.

Zeke: Cuz I never used to understand fine art like the um the elitists of it. Oh, just like that’s the only part of art I didn’t like, I like creating those like, abstract art. I never had to do something perfect. I could just create it. And it’d be beautiful.

Isaac: Yeah. Kinda like poetry. Yeah, you’re just creating and it’s nice, Yeah, I don’t know how they choose which ones sell for millions of dollars, which ones is not worth anything. I don’t understand that.

Zeke: Because we think graffiti art is beautiful with the colors and the vibrantness.

Isaac: Yeah. Yeah. I will. Like if I duct tape a apple to some cardboard. I’m like yo this is art. Somebody’s gonna throw it in the garbage. This guy did it for banana in an art gallery. And it’s selling that part I don’t understand.

Zeke: Like Banksy, Banksy. With his art his um message art and then he destroyed the painting. He destroyed it after he sold it.

Isaac: Really?

Zeke: Yeah like it was a shredder.

Isaac: Oh it’s like a second message?

Zeke: Yeah, cuz nobody knows he looks like oh

Isaac: Maybe I should have done that, anonymous artists. It’s about the art.

Zeke: The SEEK summer experience  they used um his um one of his um I guess painting I forget his painting or something like that as like let’s see what’s the meaning of the country and it’s a black and white a little color in each one of them.

Isaac: Yeah. Can you imagine that bro having people study see your work that’s crazy

Zeke: Word just study you just like I’m not that important.

Isaac: Yes. I’m just a regular guy. Yeah, I’m a regular dude. Like wearing no name brand sweaters. Yeah, but I mean, I would like to be dead if they were.

Zeke: Nah I think I want to be alive.

Isaac: Well, you know be cool if you could talk about it like discussing with people. That’s fire. I think I think that’s a,

Zeke: When the when the podcast blows up. Yeah.

Isaac: Yeah, that’s dope.

Zeke: Why do you use Why did you shot the angle this way? In your mind because it looked nice. Right? So this is mine to say you’ll there’s a meaning like Yeah, well, you get the color blue here and  the event that there?

Isaac: What do you think about that?

Zeke: About what?

Isaac: What do you think about that? Like people are interpreting your creation different than how you intended it.

Zeke: I think that’s just life because we all have different experiences. Mm hmm. Cuz my truth I used to think that my truth was like the truth of everybody. We have like there are accepted facts that it says facts. And then like the way you see things, it’s not how everyone see things. Right, right. And then that then there’s a learning moment, because then you can see how do you see like, Oh, this new perspective, and then that goes to the next feasts are probably the evolution.

Isaac: Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I see what you mean. Because that happens a lot. Actually. I feel like it happens for everyone. Yeah. Like we have my poetry sometimes people think like, oh, so this is what it means. He doesn’t close. But not really, or sometimes somebody will pointed like, it was just the most basic thing in my head. This is like, this is mad deep. I’m like, word it’s like that. Write that down. I did that. Again. You know, actually do it to myself to like, sometimes that’s sometimes just comes out and then come back to us one day I like yo who wrote this, this madd deep. Yo, you did that, he didn’t do that. Yeah, I be having conversation in my head like, yo, so he said this and that I’m like, Oh, man. Oh, it just came out like

Zeke: That happened with Jordan Peele with Get Out with the um girl. Drinkng the um own Drinkng the milk. separately.

Isaac: Yeah. What was it? I mean, I

Zeke: He didn’t have a meaning with him it didn’t have a meeting. Uh huh. But other people’s like she’s separating the white and the color separately from each other.

Isaac: She did.

Zeke: Yeah,

Isaac: She did.

Zeke: Yeah.

Isaac: You know, I was thinking like, what does that mean? That’s funny. He didn’t actually have a meaning for that 

Zeke: Because he said I go to classes and people talking about it. He just like, was putting out things that he didn’t notice. He just like Right, right. Yeah. Did it

Isaac: Yeah. Wow. But you know, that’s actually that’s a slippery slope because, you know, like in our, in our school system, whatever, we’d be studying people’s work. I’m like, we going to deep. I don’t think I don’t think she meant that. I don’t think she was alluding to World War Two. Yo, yo.

Zeke: The teacher be like, the artist be like um the sky was blue, the teacher be like, what do you mean the sky was blue? I mean the sky was blue.

Isaac: Blue yall pulling up stuff. Like this is a slippery slope. Sometimes you go too far.

Zeke: You have to write a paper like I don’t care. I know Shakespeare I know he’s nice yeah. Um.

Isaac: Right. Imagine he was just he was just being basic like he saw it happened. He wrote it down like.

Zeke: Nah we have a whole class on him.

Isaac: Right. That’s crazy, man,

Zeke: Man, we get that one day to make my whole class the Zeke class.

Isaac: Yeah. That’s crazy. Dang, bro. Thanking big man. I gotta keep writing man my collection not long enough. I gotta keep making films through it not long enough.

Zeke: Did you have the percent discount? Forgive me forgot my questions.

Isaac: Thats cool man. You know, I got it. I gotta say a poem.Or else it’s so big bro.

Zeke: Everyone like what’s his poem like what his poetry looking like.

Isaac: Because my poetry isn’t really anywhere. Right? A couple of them had a few poems published in a magazine but that’s most of them are just print only and haven’t posted on Instagram, or any social media. I’m trying to figure out like, what medium is the best to like, share poetry. And I’m sort of just in a stage where I just want to keep writing before my tryna release. You know? I feel like one day I’m afraid Feel it? And it’s just gonna be like, yeah, it’s time. Hopefully,

Zeke: You wake up it’s about that time.

Isaac: About that time. Yeah, yes. But I think I’m still in a phase where I need to, like know, just keep writing. Um, I think I don’t know when to share like, a lot.

Zeke: But, uh, let’s see. When it comes to like to double meanings. Do you think sometimes people have it like, they typically do it or like, a lot of times it just, it just happens that they probably have two ideas at the same time. And that’s the way that the brain was like,Yes?

Isaac: All right. I’m with music. I think people do it. Mostly on purpose. Yeah. And I think with poetry actually now let me go back with just to like talking something ever say something. And it’s like, well, you know, this kind of common like somebody’s gotta say pause right? But it had two meanings. Yeah. So I think we do it. We do it by accident a lot. But you know, in a in a time, like when you’re like crafting something and you’re like looking over and a lot. Um, I think most of the time, it’s intentional. But like for me, sometimes I’ll write something. And I didn’t realize how to double meaning. But by the time I like released it, I missed it. Because I reviewed it. But I think it’s sometimes like intentional and sometimes on purpose. Yeah, I’m not sure if I write a lot in double entendres. I think I do. Not all the time. Not all the time. Sometimes.

Zeke: Yeah. Yeah. Get Out was all double entendre.

Isaac: Which one?

Zeke: Get Out was all double entendre.

Isaac: Okay, what

Zeke: The whole movie is about double entendre.  Yeah, that’s actually one of my favorite movies. I like someone else.

Isaac: It is.

Zeke: Like when they when they um spoilers for everything.

Isaac: Man it’s too old if you didn’t listen to it by if you didn;t watch it by now like.

Zeke: But when in the beginning she um when the cops was trying to get his ID. I see a YouTube video. I don’t know which one I think it was um. Cinema Cinema CinemaWins. So YouTube channel CinemaWins. When he was pointing out how the whole beginning with the um girlfriend, which tries to stop the cop from getting the ID that’s on the surfaces that stopped like police brutality, but on the other meanings to show that she’s trying to keep no paper trail that nobody knew that he went down there.

Isaac: Right. Right.

Zeke: So that nobody knew. So he disappears, right? Nobody knows.

Isaac: Right, right. True. I aint even noticed that.

Zeke: Yeah.

Isaac: Jordan Peele was doing some stuff. Good stuff.

Zeke: My man was thinking.

Isaac: He was thinking, he’s thinking, Oh, we got the room to 4:30 2014 You have to pack up your stuff. So whenever you Actually, let me let me share a poem, so I’m not fake. All, you fake rappers.

Zeke: You ain’t got not bars out here.

Isaac: Oh no which one which one is share it? Oh, I shared a human GIF. 

Zeke: It’s up to you, you the artist.

Isaac: It’s hard to say because I actually do like a lot of my poems equally. We all share this one. By the way, a lot of people when I say poetry day some spoken word. I’m not really a spoken word artists. More or less a page I read poetry page poetry, but No freestyling No. Like, making a beat on they chest. Right so it’s called the Human Gift. stuck in a never ending loop of self imposed despair. Who can save me from Me shameful nights are Killing Me Softly the uphill stride seems infinite. I swear I keep seeing the same soil. I swear I keep sinking in the same quicksand I still upward yet the crest creeps away on stretch forward yet they grasp their leg step right and left yet I’m walking in my own footsteps. It’s a cycle. I’m walking in my own footsteps. It’s a cycle. I’m walking in my own footsteps. It’s a come and behold, the human gift. stuck in a never ending loop of self imposed despair. Who can save me from me? Please save me from me.

Zeke: Yo yo the audience, someone save him. Save him You hear the bars, you hear the poetry? Paper or word smith?

Isaac: I mean, yeah, I’d like to just discuss that you know, anybody  listen to it, and I’ll find me on Instagram or something. Whats your Instagram. Instead of us sorry that’s my youtube channel.

Zeke: That’s his YouTube channel Instead of Us.

Isaac: My Instagram is Instead of Isaac, Isaac, Isaac spoke i s a a c one I two a’s. I’m new to the Instagram thing I new all this social media stuff I mixed it all up

Zeke: Your Youtube Facebook what?

Isaac: My Tik Tok is I don’t have one of those.

Zeke: Well since time is coming to a  close to the last segment so like to name your origin story.

Isaac: Oh snap caught me off guard. Okay, my origin story. I’m gonna take a cup up. I’m gonna use my own by Instagram and I said instead of Isaac. Yeah, that’s a not actually not it’s too vague. It’s not it’s not vague. It’s hard to understand if you just read it. Let me see.

Zeke: Oh,

Isaac: Dang, bro. Tough question, name named the origin story.

Zeke: You have Iron Man, yeah. The First Avenger. Right, right. Yep. Hold. You have Incredibles.

Isaac: So I’m trying to choose like a superhero name All right, what’s the name of the origin story? Let me put you on the phone.

Zeke: Today I might it might be adaptable,

Isaac: Adaptable. I like what you said today. Cuz, you know, tomorrow might be a different name. Right? So today I would say Grace,

Zeke: Grace, Grace.

Isaac: Yeah, the stock grace the story of Isaac. Nice and also makes more sense.

Zeke: That way Another episode of the Let’s Gather Podcast comes to a close. Again you can follow Isaac on Instagram @insteadofIsaac. For next week I have my friend Hamed coming in to discuss the current state of technology and some more anime talk. I hope you continue to have a nice day and hope to see you there.

[Music]