What is a Mentor?

Zakari: I would say I’ve definitely have, I definitely have a lot less time to mentor now than I thought I would. And that kind of sucks because I used to always think like mentorship is something that I’m always going to like. Focus on going full throttle, and I do well at the same time, because I do have responsibilities working because I also have responsibilities to my wife like I also do have to take into account like, I have to give 110% every single thing that I’m doing. Hello.

 [Music]

Zeke: I like to welcome, everyone to another episode of the Let’s Gather Podcast. I’m your host Zeke and this episode, my friend Zakari to talk about the importance of mentorship. I like to give a content warning for any strong language used in this episode. And I hope you have a nice day and enjoy the show. 

Zeke: Recording (mumbling) okay. So well, first, thank you for being on the podcast.

Zakari: My pleasure, my pleasure.

Zeke: And so the first question I always ask is, what would your origin story be?

Zakari: That’s a fair question. Um, I would say my origin story began as a little boy born, born and raised in Brooklyn. I lived in Eastern New York for roughly eight years. And then from there, I went to Ghana, and I lived in Ghana for three years. And I always feel like it’s very important to kind of talk about the West African kind of heritage just because I feel and there’s something I guess I’m very proud prideful about just the idea of like, actually knowing like where I’m from, because I feel like a lot of minorities sometimes just to know that they do have heritage somewhere else, but they can actually tie it back to the roots and God was Man, unlike unlike the United States, or just being in a Western society, there is more like a collectivist kind of narrative and sense that people weren’t really as individualistic, people were actually really looking to care about their neighbor. It wasn’t just kind of like a high buy situation. But if your neighbor had problems, you have problems and like and vice versa, if the child was acting up, you also had rights like discipline the child, so everybody collectively was growing together, for better for worse, and when when we had economic downturns was affecting everybody. And likewise, when things were good, everybody else was successful as well. And I feel like that kind of promoted the idea of helping other people and realizing kind of do things without giving back. I think that’s where that was probably the moment for me that kind of stood out. Because essentially, I didn’t really understand the impact initially while I was there, because I mean, I was eight years old, right? So like eight years old, you’re thinking of doing good things in everything like let me go play some soccer. Let me just go be an idiot. And like run around and chase girls or whatever. But as you grow older though, these things like leave an imprint on like your subconscious and eventually it kind of comes back at you. So then fast forward and backing you up to come back when I’m like 11 years old. I went to this like private school in Woodside. And that was a bit of a challenge, because that’s when I really had my first understanding of racism itself, because I dealt with racism in the past, but like, I don’t think I was aware at the time. You know, like, because before I went to like another private Islamic school as well, but the issue was, I was too young to really understand. I just thought that it was like just being bullied for the idea of just being bullied. I didn’t know the bully was actually tied to just being black and that was it really, this time around is very, very, very clear. Like all the typical black jokes in the book, dude. I got it like fried chicken, grape juice and grape soda. To the big lifts, I mean, dude, like, No, I don’t remember the podcast about the tactics that I heard. But it was crazy, you know. And I think, initially, it was very hurtful. And I feel like all these are still relevant to the origin story because it’s kind of kind of give better perspective as to who I am as a person. But it, it really allowed me to kind of grow and take the world for what it is both for the good and for the bad. And in a way, I kind of developed a bit of tough, tough skin. So that now kind of dealing with my job in corporate America or just my experiences with corporate america and some of the little kind of passive aggressiveness that you kind of go through. Because of my prior experiences. I’m better welcome better well equipped to kind of handle it something’s I don’t take us personal, because sometimes he was minority. Sometimes we can overtake every single little thing as personal when that’s not always the case. That’s not to say that things aren’t happening. But there could be some where we’re looking to be offended as opposed to actually being in position where someone’s trying to offend us. And I feel like being in having that kind of upbringing kind of gave me that a level of, of external awareness to kind of see that. And then, you know, I went to Baruch college and kind of like here I am now, about to graduate Master’s in Taxes, so.

Zeke: Super nice.

Zakari: Thank you. I know that’s a bit long winded, but

Zeke: How would you represent that origin story movie book memoir?

Zakari: That’s a good question. I like to write. I’m also an author. So I would probably write it out. At one point, actually, I was thinking, I was thinking of writing the novel and the title was very basic title. And I like to keep my thinking was going to be called Feeling of Neglect. And the idea of that book was to kind of just like, bridge the gap for those who sometimes felt a disconnect between your family in the event they did that they did have a family or they didn’t have a family before. kind of wanted to see that other people are experiencing that level of emotions as well. So that would ideally be be the novel that they’d like to write up at some point. Yeah.

Zeke: So you said about collectiveness, right. So that they what brought you into mentoring? The idea of collectiveness?

Zakari: Mm hmm. So, your question is about like, like how, like about, like, in terms of my opinion of collectiveness or what that means to?

Zeke: What that did that bring did that spark like the motion of mentorship for you?

Zakari: Yeah, I would say so. Because the for example, um, when I when I first want to when I when I first went to Ghana, right, so like a super young eighth grade, and I also like went to middle school year and so like when you’re going in the middle of the school year, as you can assume, you know, friends and connections have already kind of been made. And so you’re, you’re a bit of an outcast, right, and you either Usually there’s one or two ways you’re going to start your school either you’re going to be the one of the you know in crowd or you’re going to be in the out crowd possibly converting to the in crowd or you might just stay in the out crowd for good and that’s really usually how it is there’s sometimes there’s the occasional middle ground, but typically it’s usually hard left to right. And I remember I that was the first time I really kind of saw people kind of sticking up for people so I think I was in like, third or fourth grade and I had like some issue with this fifth grade or whatever and I just started telling some of my friends about it in third or fourth grade and literally all of a sudden the entire boys class of like, class four a and class four because that’s what we call it there. We don’t like doing grades here like the US system. Like kind of gathered around me I was like, who said what to who did what to you like to kind of like try to like, attack that one person. And for me that was huge because like, I’ve never experienced that before. Cuz mind you again, like I knew right? At that point, there wasn’t any knowledge of what part of Ghana I was living in. There was no knowledge of the fact that I was I was a US born and bred. You know what I mean? Maybe they could have told to me accident. I don’t know. Like there wasn’t much of a dead giveaway. So I don’t think they were doing yet with the expectation of like getting anything in return, I think for them was sort of like, No, you entered this school, you’re now part of us, and whatever happens to you good or bad or worse, we got you. And that kind of like left an imprint that like, some times you have to take advantage of helping out people even when they’re not necessarily going to be full. Like even even when you feel like that. That motion of giving back might not necessarily be reciprocated. And I think this kind of ties back to like with mentorship because of mentorship. I feel you’re in a position whereby you feel that you have advice, you have resources, you have a strong network, you have connections, you might be dealing with people who basically never had a cheerleader before and like for me like I remember seeing this Leadership Program and the access to a kind of like our Moto, our motto and I said my motto is to be a true leader for those who never been true before, to be able to kind of help people see the light that they weren’t able to see for themselves. Because like, that’s who my target market is, like, when I’m looking at if, let’s say, we walk into the room, and Zeke, you’re really this dude is, you know, a superstar. He’s a star shooter, he’s totally going to become like a president united states, great for him, right? And that’s awesome. But that’s not what I’m looking to mentor. Well, I’m looking to mentor is a person who was told you’re the troublemaker, you’re not gonna make it. You fill in all your classes, it’s just not possible for you, dude, like basically kind of being told they’re gonna live up to the expectations of the self fulfilling prophecy. That’s who I wanted. Because I feel I find more value in that, right because then now I can actually really truly see the growth, the incremental growth, and I can also learn to be a better person as well. And then I could kind of relate some of that, because I wasn’t always structured As I am today, I mean, you might see me on campus being like the structure person always like dressed up or whatever. But like, I wasn’t always like that. I used to be the kid that was a troublemaker used to be the kid who’s getting into fights. I used to be the kid who, who, like, wasn’t necessarily the most the most kindest person with a person who was eager to, like respect people who respect people’s opinion. But over time, I kind of like, changed through the different experiences. And so being able to kind of share that with someone else who’s doubted as well, to change them eventually from becoming the underdog to now becoming that champion. It’s a huge goal for me. So I think it definitely correlates back to like that idea of collective exam in Ghana, because it left an imprint on my subconscious that I didn’t even realize it was president at the time. Nice.

Zeke: Cool to lift mentorship. What is your mentorship style? Are you like more hands on what a ban?

Zakari: That’s a good question. So with that, internship, I would say I’m I like to save I, I’m very hands on, but I also like to cater around my mentee. And I guess I kind of could say I have like a mentorship story. So when I started out, I was like a sophomore, right. And I was like, You know what? I want to make an impact here. I don’t know what in fact, I want to do. There’s teams, there’s clubs, there’s organizations, there’s USG, there’s so many different opportunities for me to really put an imprint. But even beyond all the school stuff, I really want to do something for me that like regardless of group, I can kind of take away and say, you know, Zakari, you did this. So I was like, You know what, I just did this little leadership program with EY, and I know that I’m gonna, you know, start working for them this coming summer. Let me actually just try to be a Campus Ambassador and try to recruit me probably why would I ever talk to them about Big Four experiences and so on and so forth. And mind you, recruiting for big four is nowhere by any means difficult in comparison to say like investment banking or applying to get into like the big four with restricted companies or marketing, whatever. So it wasn’t really that much of a challenge. But it was interesting cuz I never did anything like that before. So next year I start like, you know, interacting with freshmen, sophomore through the different programs that we have at our disposal. So like using utilizing my mentees from success network utilizing mentees from my, from the peer mentor, the same way how we both teach freshmen first year seminar and kind of talking to them about the different opportunities and things of that nature. And then making sure sometimes I would literally just attend accounting events, not to recruit, but just to ideally look for those who who kind of came off a little bit introverted and didn’t necessarily know what to do what questions to ask, and to put them to the side and say, hey, man, I’ve seen that you’re like, in the corner alone by yourself, um, what’s going on? Like, are you are you interested or like, were you here, you know, like, kind of like building some some level of small talk and a lot of times that their their their number one question to me is like, I really I really want to work here, but I just don’t know how to network like, what do you recommend? And then I was like, be yourself. But I was like, let me go one step further beyond that, because I feel sometimes you kind of hear that cliche, be yourself. But it’s like, what the hell does that mean? What does it mean to be yourself like, who is who is the self who is by itself and I was like, dude, try to bring it home to something that’s central to this actual environment that you’re in. So I for one guy that I am, and I remember we’re in the line are talking, I was like, all right, you see the screen right now that we’re about to eat. One of this, one of the items in the food, for example is going to be it’s going to taste good, right? You might like the chicken, you might like the guacamole, you might like the rice, whatever the case may be, when you find this person that you want to interact with. Tie it back to this very simple, just start talking about that. And then from here, maybe start talking about your interest in culinary cuisine, right? Or you can talk about the fact that you enjoy your mom’s cooking like just something to kind of bring it home kind of build that level of connection. And then from there, you can really get to really what you’re interested in. So then it was like But what what what ended up just be like basic small talk that doesn’t really lead anywhere. And I’m like, in my opinion, small talk usually doesn’t work when you’re talking about things you could give a damn about. Right? So in other words, if I meet you, I’m like, hey, Zeke, like, how’s the weather up there? Like, how many times have you heard that shit? Like it’s it’s not it’s not anything that really adds to value. But if I’m like hazy how’s your family and then like, you start talking to me your family and I don’t just like transition to something else because that’s what typically people discount like the hi how are you before you answer they don’t really give a damn about your answer. They move on. But like no like, Hey, hurry, how’s everything going on? Like, what do you guys been up to you how to July 4, like that kind of stuff. You start really big. Okay, what’s my July 4 and whatever, whatever. Then from there, we can kind of move like we can. We can establish a strong rapport that can get us to somewhere and somebody’s recommending that to people and really walking them through different strategies based on their own personality. I was hoping I was able to kind of then eventually kind of help them bridge the gap and fostering better connection. And then showing them some tricks and some tips and tricks that worked for me in terms of building memorable relationships. So I kind of broke it down into like a three step process, not like the first step is, when you go to a networking function, you ideally want to think outside the box and think outside the box means how can you leave a lasting impression? What can you do to bring up that will set you apart from all the other peers around you? One thing I noticed with networking functions is they don’t always like to talk about their functional roles, because they just got off work, or they took some time off work to come and talk about it. But ideally, if you could talk to them about something outside of work, they probably will remember you. Anything that’s work related that particular moment in time, especially if it’s like eat kind of function. They might like they’ll answer your question, don’t get me wrong, but I don’t think it’s necessary to like set that like, set you truly apart. But if you’re gonna find like a commonality via like maybe a club or an org that you were part of maybe some, some type of community service that you did that you both might have, you know, shared in common or whatever. If Maybe they had a relative that did XYZ that can set you apart. And also didn’t like keep it short and sweet because sometimes in working functions, you will have those students that kind of go and try to talk to the recruiter for like an hour at a time, if there’s a long line behind you, they’re also paying attention to how sensitive you are to the people around you. So try to capital like two to two to three minutes at max, depending on how long the line is, get a business card, and follow up. And I tell people, the most important thing here is not just going to the event or thinking outside the box was the follow up. Because there’s countless times for business, business. professionals, maybe 5060 business cards, wait till you’re gonna reach out. So who am I to remember the to the question now becomes how fluid is the conversation afterwards? So I recommend when you send that when you send that follow up, don’t say a follow up where it’s just sort of like, Hey, thank you for your time. I really appreciate meeting you. But x questions. Clear. Do you want to know something about them? clue you want to know something about the company, whatever ox those questions you actually want to know. And make sure you’re only asking things that you care about. Again, like I said, we don’t ask if you don’t care about it, if you don’t care to know, don’t ask, because it’s gonna get to a point where you’re gonna have like a boring moment in the conversation. And sometimes you really may or may not be able to break out of that boredom. And it’s not because you didn’t click, but it’s more so just because you both just didn’t really care. I mean, and so that level of fluid kind of just doesn’t exist. So after I saw people kind of taking into account the whole questions part of their follow up, that lead, basically created a call to action for the person on the other end, who now has advice and could say, Okay, cool. Let’s get a jump on a phone call. So I can further discuss or Let’s meet in person at some point, so maybe we could discuss this. And then boom, right at that point, once you’ve made that face to face, you can go about one to one connection with this no other external distraction. You’re good to go. And then you could really take the conversation however you want to take it and kind of get to wherever you want to go with it. That’s kind of like usually my initial goal for whoever I’m dealing with always recommend try to get a coffee, you’re trying to get maybe a 15 minute chat over the phone. But definitely try to stand out with respect to the question that you’re asking and try to just showcase who you are. View your interests and your questions.

Zeke: Nice. And with that (mumbling) me I always kind of wonder how to connect with like professionals. Because I was a student, I didn’t really have much to offer as like being a student come so to figure out who I am what I’m trying to learn. And so I’m trying to figure out what questions to ask. I don’t know what I don’t know.

Zakari: Right.

Zeke: Yeah. So with that, when you first took on a mentee was it like natural for you to quick or did you have to learn about yourself as you try to learn about them.

Zakari: I think I think that’s a great question. So I think when it comes when it when I came when it comes to like my freshman team, and in official capacity, it was interesting because this is where my structure personality kind of came in. And then I realized, ideally, mentorship should be a little bit more fluid and not so structured. And it didn’t really work out too much. And I noticed that there was a massive disconnect between me and the mentees that I was interacting with. And the reason being is because I was trying to create this like by by the book method that made the most sense. But then I forgot to take into account we as individuals, we’re extremely dynamic, we’re not static, we change we interact differently. We like to joke and we like to laugh like we don’t no one wants to just be talked to, but they want to be talked to what you know. And I think once I understood that factor, is when I started to take into account the personality factor and I realized There’s some people that I might interact with were honestly now looking for a conversation. They just want you to come in you guys develop an execution plan and that’s it me call it a day. Thank you, thank you and cool message. There’s other people who are like, No dude, like before I actually start taking your advice, you know, where I want to see someone have a friend an amiable relationship. Because through that now I can actually kind of trust you because now I feel like you truly do have my self interest at heart. And so for those individuals, I’d focus on building and fostering a genuine amiable relationship. I’ll accent about their family, I’ll action about their, their, their interests, their hobbies, if I find opportunities that can align with their interests that I think would be great for them not actually good for me because it’s not about me, it’s about them, you know, recommending that to them. If I know someone that is looking for say, maybe a person to go play badminton, I might say, Hey, listen, I remember you said you’re interested in badminton. I have a friend who’s looking for a badminton player to play you know, every once in a while, do you think you’d be interesting connecting and they connect and kind of just showing that interest that you actually really were being attentive to when they were telling you your interest goes along what? You know, because sometimes you just don’t do that, you know, like, we say that we kind of care about our friends and what they’re talking about or whatever. But like, do we do we really put our mouth? Where do we do we really put our mouth where our mouth is like browser networking at one point. I used to sometimes go to like art events. That’s not because I’m interested in art, like, no offense to artists or whatever, but I don’t really care too much about her I have an interest in literature art, but not like actual you know, physical art, like the costume Monalisa like that kind of stuff. Like I’m not saying upon, but I have friends and peers that are very much you are interested in them. And so the question becomes, like, How can I be an asset to them? Right? Because I’m going to talk swirled which is pretty small. You know, and in comparison to things like art or things that you know, our morning discretionary side, I really do have an interest in you know, it’s sometimes hard to to kind of break that tradition. There’s not nearly always a structured way to enter into that world. And so by me going in interacting in business cards, and kind of showing face, I was able to fill that gap for some of these peers that didn’t necessarily have the motivation or the courage to go in and interact with some of these professionals at that point in time. And that was able to help them build their network, essentially, sometimes I didn’t just network for myself, but for the people around me as well.

Zeke: Nice and cool. Because me, I think I’m more of a reluctant leader, where I have the skill set to do it. But I don’t always want to take that extra step. And then at that time, when people push me to, like, does like, okay, we’ll give you this, we’ll give you this job because of your own personality and skill set. Which I am right now. I’m trying to learn by myself and my lipstick right now. And how to better people. Yeah. Cuz I’m older. I’m older brother. So I have like I had to be a mentor, almost automatically. Because I have a younger sibling.

Zakari: Absolutely, absolutely. I totally I totally feel that I have I have a, I have a younger sibling as well. And for me, I used to I used to like when people say like, what’s your biggest motivator? in a weird way? It’s a very abstract concept. But I believe whenever I tie success, or an ambition to something that’s abstract, I tend to do a lot better than when I when I align it to something tangible. always tell them like so before I was married, I said to myself, 10 years from now, that’s my greatest motivator like is in 10 years from now, would I be happy with what I’m doing today? That would be something I’ll usually ask myself before I made these like good decisions. Now that I’m married. My new question always is, how would my son feel if he were to hear that I was doing this? With that making him proud to say wow, like my dad is doing XYZ would that change his perspective of me and say, Wow, I can’t believe my dad did that. And believe it or not, like that’s how that’s helped me really, like, get through some very tough, difficult decisions. And I and it’s interesting because again, it’s abstract like who’s to say I’m gonna have a frickin son like Kobe had three daughters? Yeah, like, I don’t think he knew for a fact he was gonna have only daughter’s, you know, rip Kobe but like, it happened, you know, but just me thinking like my unborn child kind of gives me that motivation to really try to be the best person I could be. That doesn’t necessarily mean that I’m not going to make any mistakes. And that doesn’t actually mean that I don’t have any flaws. I definitely have all the above. But it just gives me some sense of clarity and a better sense of direction in terms of how to move. So I totally understand your your perspective with respect to having a younger sibling and trying to like live right by them so that you can really coach them and be the best mentor you can afford. Because essentially, you’re the first emblem that they see.

Zeke: Yeah. Especially with a single parent household (inaudible).

Zakari: Oh, yeah.

Zeke: They kind of emulate what I do. This is decisions you make.

Zakari: This and how do you how do you find how do you find that dynamic? Do you find your siblings to be retentive or like to what you’re saying? Like do you find that they actually take into account whatever it is you’re recommending or is it kind of like, nah Zeke is Big Brother I don’t really care what he says I’m gonna do what I want to do.

Zeke: I think it’s a mixture of both depending on the situation. Because it’s all we my brother we argue we butt heads because like we’re very similar, but we have like, right differences and like those like interests and stuff like that. So like sometimes, okay, you emulating my words and they emulate my style. And then they say has a similar mindset. But then this time since he has like a totally different own skill set, I think he’s more English base. While I’m like math base.Still trying to figure his own path, even though he’s still in the room.

Zakari: Right. Yeah.

Zeke: We’re currently in the same school, but today for two different reasons.

Zakari: Got it. So it his goal to be like a English professor or something, or?

Zeke: I think he’s still trying to craft that. Because no one else. I just graduated college the same time you did. And we just like, it’s still I’m still trying to build web wound. So I think right, yeah, go ahead.

Zakari: No, I was gonna say the great thing is, we’re both we’re all young. So yeah, essentially, we have that time because like, I graduated, yes. You know, and I’m in my career fine, but like, do I like am I sure am I fully fully certain, like, I really want to do this are those Am I I don’t know. You know, and I feel like that’s also one thing that like, I feel people don’t know about me, like, I’ve always really been confused. I just, I just kind of live by the philosophy of whatever you’re gonna do, do 150%. So if you do happen to change your mind, as in like, you Do say that you want to stay in this whatever, like people can look back and say, okay, like this person really, like, loves what they do, they do a great job at it, etc. As opposed to like, half assing something and then if you do that, like now, like, if you were to leave and try to come back people don’t really want you back because it’s like when you’re there you weren’t really giving it your all, you know, I mean, so I guess in a way it’s kind of like that fake it till you make your principal but, but fake it well, if that makes sense, as opposed to just like faking it the kind of like, yeah, I totally feel you on it. And I think it’s common for for people our age often be really confused in terms of what we actually want to do. Because who’s like, we can’t freakin predict 2040 years from now. Like, it’s awesome. I mean, if we could get you and I’d be billionaires like you probably wouldn’t even be doing zoom chats like you’d be making money. You feel me but here we are in a podcast. So yeah, I totally feel you.

Zeke: And then with that time times a high school like you become a tutor and like they want to know like the reason why I became a SEEK mentor because my counselor recommended me to like, what you call it to, like, help students with like, being like a role model or like, you know, I saw the school when I was able to evolve through everything. When I was always I always struggled like, connect with people because in school a lot of a lot of students they have like, trouble adjusting, like to the academics, but I didn’t really have that because right, I was used to because of my high school is working hard. They are working. And like just getting the hardest classes and stuff like that. And then also on how to explain to somebody how to do things I do because I’ve been to a lot of since I was in sixth grade. But that was like the year where I started. Different skill sets like this being involved in being involved in school, and then excelling. And wondering how to like bridge that gap.

Zakari: So you said that you were involved heavily with tutoring. And I think I missed a little bit because because it broke up.

Zeke: Oh, so like I said, like from the beginning like high school is when I really realized that, oh, what you call it people wanting to push me into their own mentoring role because I was a tutor my sophomore year, and my senior year so my senior, my principal made me his like a teacher’s assistant for him. Okay, so it was like, being in that role. I was like, oh, getting used to it to say, connect with people. And then we’ve got to Baruch more like now how I actually connect with people because I don’t have that same struggle with academics. A lot of us do. And how do I how do I explain my reasoning for there’s always been involved.

Zakari: And so how’d you go about doing doing that?

Zeke: Right now I’m starting to I understand myself and saying how, why do the things have realized that it was sixth grade when I first like that was like the spark. Because that’s when I joined the math team. We were talking about competition we lost but it shows you that I’m still doing things outside of the classroom. And then I’m just like, being there for my students. I want to be there academically, but I always give them the tips I learn and be there probably emotionally or anything like that. Like not just academically, but like being there, but there’s something else I see that they might not see. Or like just being there for them. I might try um helpout in that way.

Zakari: Got it. And also keep in mind Gee, there’s no there’s never been really a thing like a loss, right? Yeah. I’m using why I say that I say that for two reasons. There’s one quote that I developed that I, that I find to be very, very silly and corny, but I like to use it. Sometimes my friends tease me for it. And then there’s another thing that I like to use that actually makes sense. And this is something I heard, I can’t remember who I heard it from. But the line goes, so in terms of quote that I heard, it’s sort of like, you never lose, so long as you’re learning. And the only time you stop learning, you stop breathing. And so likewise, unless you’re dead, you’re still learning. And so you did lose that math competition. You’ve learned something from it. Because now you could kind of know if you if you were in the same scenario where you’re putting that exact same math competition, you can form a lot differently now than you would have before. Because you learn when you’re not learning, that’s when you’re losing. Right? So like a stock market, like if you invest into the stock market and you lose several grand, that sucks, but what are you going to do with that loss? Are you going to now capitalize on it in terms of understanding better sense of risk management or changing your strategy? Are you gonna continue to lose? You know what I mean? And then my corny line, but I like to use I like to say that if you look at a W, A w is kind of like two L’s, kind of joined together. If you think about it, right, because there you go. Very quickly. It’s easier, but it like, every win, take several losses. That’s basically my philosophy, my belief, My belief is that like, the more you lose, the more you’re setting yourself up to win. Because in my opinion, if you’re constantly winning, and you’re never losing, sometimes you don’t actually necessarily know why you want some of that winning partially could be part of luck, because you’re not able to kind of do a self assessment as to what were the good things that you did. When you lose sometimes you don’t know how to deal with that. But if you’re in a position where you’ve lost a lot, without when comes in, it hits you different you feel me it’s kind of like you ever had that class where like you’re bombing it? You know, and you start going to the professor’s office hours and you’re like, yeah, damn, I don’t even know what I’m doing. I’m thinking about changing my major, whatever, right? And then, you know, come final time you Ace it. You know? And the professor is looking at you like, yeah, this is crazy when I say Professor could also apply to high school as long as you kill it and like you feel you feel great. Now take that around unless you started ASAP class initially. And then come final time you bombed the class and all your average goes down. Which one? Which one makes you feel better? Because so much. Yeah. Because it’s where you, it’s not so much where you start, but I like to tell people and this is where my dad kind of gave me this quote. He said, it’s not where you start. It’s where you finish that matters at the end. Like no, like when you’re going for a job interview, they’re not gonna say what was your GPA? What was your end of your end of your college career GPA? Because they know that there So many ups and downs around it. But what were you doing during that time? Were you learning from some of the lessons? Or are you just kind of like basking in your sadness? Yeah, I don’t know, just when he said the last thing, I just felt the need to kinda drop back because I felt to our word choices do play a role with how we take with how we interpret certain things.

Zeke: Well, yeah, also learn how to lose from that competition. Like, I learned that, okay, I know, I hate losing, but I sat down a loss. It’s okay.

Zakari: And that’s a big move in itself.

Zeke: Mm hmm. And now that you transition from like a student or professional, how has that changed been and like, also mentoring? How would you like to change the world since you’re not in your student anymore and people, students look at you different?

Zakari: That’s a good question. So I still do mentorship and I’m still technically still still a student, right? Because I have one more summer class left to get my master’s and then I’ll have it in August. But until then I like to still consider myself a student. People don’t but I like to. And yes, there is a definitely definitely different outlook. So like, I had a family friend reach out to me recently, and she’s trying to break into the fashion industry. Right? Um, her parents aren’t really supportive of it. They’re kind of like, watching what is fashion go become a doctor, lawyer engineer. But I don’t really care about these conventional traditional jobs, dude, like, whatever it is that you want to do, go do it. If you are passionate, and you believe that you can get it done. I’m going to help you get there. So as soon as she kind of brought up the fact that she’s in fashion, I hit up all my friends that like are somewhat tied to the fashion industry, whether that is doing advertising for these fashion agencies or creating their own fashion brands and trying to get some insight and see if I could like spread her network via that way, helping her out with her cover letter and her resume just from a structural functional perspective. And I’m kind of like just prepping her in terms of mindset. Um, but then at the end of the conversation, the feedback that I received from my dad because my dad and her mom are family friends is she was like, um, how old is Zakari? Because like, he sounded very old on the phone. And then when my dad was like, Oh, yeah, it’s actually just actually you’re older than you like, she was Mind blown. She was like, What? Like, I felt I got stuck into this, like big adult and my dad was talking to someone who’s just a year older than me, and I’m like, and then we kind of feel really good because even when I was in college, like as a sophomore at one point, I was actually coaching graduate students after which is huge, because I didn’t even have my degree at that point. And yet I’m, you know, being able to cook master’s degree. My oldest person ever like coach was a person who literally had a JD that means he graduated law school came to Baruch to get a masters in tax. And that’s someone and that was by far like my biggest like accomplishment. Like, this is frickin lawyer like, inside me that can give me an endless and yet also to kind of kind of help them coach them through a process. But But in terms of your original question of, of, do I find a transition? I feel Yes, I feel like there’s a different there’s a different level of perspective. And sometimes I can see the anxiety kind of swell up on students because they think they’re talking to a professional, they don’t want to mess up or anything that that I guess, if you’ve met them before, but I keep on trying to draw them to understand like, dude, I’m a student, and I was a student. And in life, I will always be a student because I like to say that I like to define myself as being a learner. And I don’t look for you to be perfect. I don’t look for you to use, you know, industry jargon, nor do I expect you to speak in a structured function like I do. Whatever, like, you can fully express yourself in the best way that’s suitable for you get your point across as long as like there’s no disrespect involved, but we’re fine. Like we can we can get we can get around it, right because I feel like language sometimes if you kind of get into the particulars of, you know, the nuances of how someone should say something in the syntax and all that sometimes that in itself, create a tension within the conversation. It’s not a natural conversation, either. I mean, and like, I feel like the best way to talk is the way that you talk. Clearly, clearly kind of put it in a nutshell. So kind of like when I when I, when I put that into perspective, people kind of ease up a bit and they realize they beat themselves. In terms of timing, I would say I’ve definitely have, I definitely have a lot less time to mentor now than I thought I would. And that kind of sucks because they always think like doodly mentorship is something that I’m always gonna like. Focus on going full throttle, and I do while at the same time because I do have responsibilities working because I also have responsibilities to My wife like I also do have to take into account like, I have to give 110% to every single thing that I’m doing. And so it’s ensure that I’m not overburden myself, because at one point in time, I probably had about five to 10 men team meetings a week with different mentees. Right. Now, it’s probably like, one every two to three weeks that I might really have a call that someone like needs help. or something. It’s like a text type correctly a question or like write them a long paragraph, or they sent me something via email. And I’m like, and I turn around things usually within two weeks, which kind of sucks because before my turnaround time would be 24 to 48 hours. Now, it’s like, a week to two weeks and I know it’s not ideal, but now I actually understand when like, professionals get back to us late and we as students really, like if you don’t want to hurt me, like you could have just said so that I realize like, that’s not the case, dude. Like it’s nothing against you. It’s just like, life is real weird. Like after college. When I say Realize like, Dude, this ain’t no joke, like, we play around a big kid like, like, cuz in college, we don’t value time. You know, I mean, we think that everybody has the same type of time that we had. And we’re doing our little part time job or a little part time internship, or maybe a full time job even. I’m really I’m able to handle it. Yeah, but you’re not doing your career though. You know, I mean, like you’re doing you’re doing a side hustle for a moment to kind of give you some steady income to kind of handle your business, but you’re not doing like your main bread and butter. Right. different type of mentality and and I think this is why I guess our parents sometimes tells us, you’re gonna keep on, you know, disagreeing with the advice I’m giving you, but they’re sharing things that you just have to live. And like, that’s kind of what I learned through this, like, professional kind of thing. Like, now I started realizing, right sometimes professionals cancel meetings. I sometimes take it personal like Dude, like this. In my head, I’d be like, dude, like, this is our third time rescheduling What the hell is going on? Like, am I just not that important? But then I realized like, no, like, things come up and you still have responsibilities right? So I think that’s something that kind of sucks because I have to find a way to communicate that to my mentees, while also ensuring that they also feel valuable. And that’s a challenge that I’m struggling with right now as of today, because there’s certain people that I need to get back to, that I want to get back to. But then I get occupied at some of these other things that take away my time. And then I realized time management super, super important. So versus before, like, I could have a conversation with someone and I would feel like the conversation isn’t going anywhere. But I would still entertain the conversation because I felt that maybe somewhere through the conversation and might get better, we might really be able to get to the bread and butter of whatever the person needs. Now it’s more show like the initial conversation like if we can build rapport great, and if we can’t build rapport, then then let’s at least get to the list at least try to get to some of the questions so that can really be a better help. We kind of can’t get to that and usually try to cut the conversation pretty short. Not to be rude, but just from a time management perspective, because I’m allocating an hour to you. And we’re just both talking about nonsense. And that wasn’t the intention of the conversation because Mind you, like not every conversation can be serious. Like, I literally call you just roast like roast each other, right? Like, and we could talk for two hours about that. That’s not that’s fine. Like, that’s a little bit of a conversation. That was the intention. The intention was for me to mentor you. And for that hour, we’re not discussing anything around mentorship. That’s kind of a waste of time, in my opinion, because like, again, we didn’t just say, let’s just have a conversation and wherever it goes, it goes was more so like, we’re here to talk about XYZ and we’re not talking about so like, that’s something that I guess I’ve been very, very mindful of in terms of my conversations at the moment, and interactions. Cool Coronavirus says has made it easier though, because like manually in a way I have more time because I’m home they don’t have to worry about like the community factor. Like I don’t have to worry about like, you know, staying in the office and extra two hours to talk to someone or like trying to get home as soon as possible so I can jump on a call. Now I’m basically home all the time. So whatever free time I have But I can I I try to do whatever I can to connect with my mentees.

Zeke: Nice to circle back to beginning mentorship. What does mentorship mean to you?

Zakari: Oh dude, I love that question. Um mentorship means mentorship means paying it forward because you understand the value of what people have done for you in the past. people continue to do for you future reasons reason why I say that dude is we hear how many times have you heard the term self made billionaire self made entrepreneur self made that self made that I don’t believe in that shit. I don’t care what Forbes defines it to me. That’s bullshit to me. The reason why I say that dude, if you’re keeping a blonde no one’s self made. Kylie Jenner is not a self made billionaire. Why do check cart condition Nebraska self made millionaire because again, like, he worked hard, but he also had coaches down to what players sometimes are only as good as their coaches. Hence why, usually when there’s a coach is not able to coach the brand, that coach gets fired Pretty soon, but then he still gets a better coach that’s able to help him become better. He understands that he needs some, I need in order for me to be a better mentor, I need to have strong mentors myself. And I’m actively looking for mentors. I don’t just kind of keep whoever I have and say, Okay, well, now I have five and I’ve been doing great. As a mentor, I’m good. I don’t need any self improvement. I don’t need any self development. I’m chilling. I’m great. I’m, no, that’s not true at all. I’m constantly looking for people to learn from. And sometimes I learn from people who I don’t even have interactions with, like, my, like a person who inspires me the most. And it’s probably Simon Sinek. Like I read his book, start with why and that book changed my life because he talks about this principle of the Golden Circle and he says there’s three circles. And these are very, very important circles. They’re going to Shape Up how and why we do. So he says, Why is your small your innermost circle? The middle circle is your is your, your how an outermost circle is your one? And he says, a lot of us a lot of people can say what do we do? What do I do? I’m an international tax consultant. I advise corporations on how to lower the tax liability with international with international transactions, right? That’s how I could say like what I do, how do I do it? I look at the different tax treaties, I look at the different set of facts and issues and the guidelines. So therefore, help walk them through different scenarios and find the best potential outcome. Why do I do it? That’s a hard question. Because then you could say, I do it for the money. Is that really why? Because if you’re doing something for money, money you can do anything I can be a stripper for money. Yeah, I mean, like, so why would so every time you kind of get that why question. It’s hard to it’s hard to really answer it. And this is where like my little little bit tiny tiny knowledge of psychology comes with it super super tiny so like I’m not a doctor or anything but but the hit use of some psychology knowledge. You probably know this already. But like you’re like how there’s two parts of the brain, the neocortex and like the limbic system, and so like the neocortex is like how we like do things that we normally do, like, take a cup, I drink water, I walk I function I speak or whatever. The limbic part of your brain though, is, is where like, if I were to ask you easy, why do you love your mom? That’s a very hard question for you to answer. Like, you could give me as much responses as you want. And I will be like, Well, I’d be very well by answer right. But you as you giving the answer. You won’t even really feel like you actually can’t ship where you really want it to answer. And even if I would ask you the question 50 times, you still would never get to that. And that’s the limbic part of the brain. And that’s triggered by the why. And I feel like a lot of people we function on on on on autopilot on the neocortex, but we don’t think about the limbic. And so that if we do start to really think about the limbic side of why do we do things? Like let’s think from a purpose driven perspective, why am I doing something? It really helps you grow? And so for me, the metric has always been purpose driven. I don’t care that people are watching me, I don’t care that people are aware of mentorship, I care to see that my mentee succeeding and my mentee asked me Hey, what can I do for you in return? My number one thing that I always tell them is, hey, listen, when you find someone that’s just like how you are today, seeking my help, do exactly what I did for you to them. That’s it. That’s all I want from you. Continue that like this. Show me that you are thankful. Show me that you have gratitude Are you being able to take some of the knowledge that I was able to impart on you that helped you get to a better level or help you get to the next step, and pass that on to someone else? Because I wasn’t self made. I was the, you know, always the person that had the insight and had some of the answers, I was able to get that through my interaction with people. And likewise, same thing for you, you’re starting out, be able to reciprocate that to people moving forward. And that makes me feel great. Because I feel like when I saw the movie, pay it forward, like that’s basically what I understood from that movie, and I saw that movie and I was like, in seventh grade Dude, I’m like, I was Mind blown. Like, I saw that movie. And I was like, This kid is a frickin genius. I mean, I know it’s a movie. I know. It was like, Yeah, I think whatever. But like, the principal just really really connected with me, man. And from there, I was like, whatever that whatever that kid did. I want a part of it. Because that’s, that’s what I don’t want my brand name to be, you know, nuts. That’s that’s literally how I move. And so for me, it’s like giving advice, giving in Talking on panels, whatever the case would be any engagement opportunity that you have. I go full throttle on it. Because I feel like if you have knowledge you should share it. What good is it you keeping it? You know, cuz Les Brown said the greatest ideas are thrown in the graveyard so if you take a moment and you really just processed that quote, what does that tell you? A lot of people had a lot of ideas. Either one they didn’t share in the died with it. Or two. They shared it, they talked about it, but they weren’t able to be about it. And so therefore they died with I like to challenge myself with a quote that says it’s only at the top and the bottom and I like to say as I’m climbing up the top, I want to bring people with me. And it’s kind of somewhat goes with like the natural quote lifting as we climb. But really what I’m really trying to focus on is dude, when I’m at the top, I don’t even call Zeke and like yo z let’s go to let’s go to France, bro. ls you’d be like yeah, you know what, screw it. Like I’m killing like bless out. You know, like I would be able to you know, call wherever it is and like, like, let’s let’s make moves. Like let’s go enjoy. Like you’re in mean like, why should we? Why should it be that the I need to just, you know, keep on giving loans to people or I need to keep on like, whatever, like, Why can we all eat? You know, like, Why can we all help each other? Like, like, what if let’s say you create like a podcast company and I’m like your tax dude. And then like, you’re like the dude who’s handling the podcast and we have another person taking care of marketing, and then another person who may be creating like, the, the graphic design to like, make it like, look cool or whatever, I don’t know the terminology, whatever, it’s, I’m not gonna try to mix it up. But, but the point that I’m trying to make is like, we can all eat. You feel me? And so like, that’s, that’s what I like to see. Like, I like to see people eating and finding ways to make ourselves eat and we could do that collectively. And that’s why I was talking about like the Hogan approach in terms of being a part of a collectivist society, you realize that the benefit of one you have people in sync because it creates synergy and one of your beings when you when you have that synergy, it leads to better efficiency. And when you’re all efficient as a team better effective results. You know what I mean? Yeah. So I know I might have extended a little bit further from the original question of of what this mentorship mean but I just felt like since I was kind of going there like I’ve also kind of kept keep on going because because the thoughts are coming to my head but I feel like it’s still like relevant I feel like there’s at least some some positive takeaways from it.

Zeke: But yeah. Inside that you also mentioned of how you’ve all looked for somebody to be, you’re mentor right. Um I heard that. You um had to have like your board of directors, your life. I forgot where that came from. We have like, people you go to, and you bounce ideas from them. And I want to see, how did you go about doing that in your life?

Zakari: Oh, yeah, that’s, that’s a very, very good question. So um, I did actually, I do have I do have board of directors in my life and they all serve different purposes. And these are people that I check in with usually, I’d say either quarterly or semi annually or sometimes annually, depending on how busy they are, or the dynamic of a relationship. For some people, it’s more so focused around sponsorship, and sponsorship is sort of like, Hey, I’m looking to make this career transition, or I’m looking for this promotion. How do I how do I go about doing that, and I was able to talk to one of my mentors for a while and we were able to like, work to help help help myself kind of accomplish that goal. And so like now coming out, even though I graduated, and I’m now interning for the firm, I’ll be starting as a staff too. So I’ll actually be getting promoted from step one to step two, just off of starting full time because I’ve been with the company for a little, a little close to two years now. So my my experience with the firm and my interactions with with the people that I work with all were positive, and that kind of led me to getting this opportunity. But again, the opportunity to Come just strictly from my work ethic. It also came from having a sponsor that was able to kind of advocate and say, I’m willing to put my political capital on the line for Zakari exactly shown me that he’s capable of handling this level responsibility, I’m able to do that. Another case scenario when I was in Australia, um, this person that I was working with had a mentor, that was a, she was a CFO of a, of an airline company in, in Australia. And he, he asked me, like, if we were to set up a conversation with the CFO, what are some questions you think we should ask? You know, because if you’re meeting with someone have like such a high, you know, a high status or whatever, like, you definitely don’t wanna, you want to ideally find like some high level type questions to ask them, right, because nitty gritty things are things in a granular detail, they might not be able to answer that because that’s not that’s not really how we think we’re programmed to think. And I didn’t have the answer. You know, those those one of the few times where someone asked me a question, I really didn’t really know what What to ask. So I hit up one of my mentors, and I was like, Hey, this is a situation. This is the this is, um, I have a meeting tomorrow or sometime at the end of this week. And I remember what it was, how do you think I should go about doing this? And then he sent me a bunch of articles to read. And he kind of gave me some some suggestions. And from that, I kind of went back to the guy and I was like, hey, these are some of the things that I think we should. These are, how I feel we should guide the conversation. And when we had the conversation was a lovely conversation because we took some of that approaches. So when I need the help, I make sure to take advantage of it. Or someone asks me a question. I really don’t have the answer to it. And I know that one of my mentors might have that I look back. I also look to my dad for advice. Sometimes. He tends to really give me advice when it comes to understanding how to pace myself. Because sometimes I have the strong go getter mentality, but I start speeding through things and it usually leads me to burn out and it also leads me to not appreciate taking things one step at a time, which is important, right? Because with college, for example, like I was heavily involved. But while being heavily involved, I don’t feel like I truly grasp the moments that I really would have like to. Like, I feel like I wasn’t actually always fully present. Like my wife criticized me and says, you’re always thinking you’re always thinking, and she’s right. Like, I am always thinking, right? Like, you and I could be sitting in a room, and we’re focusing on, you know, figuring out what the next move is for our podcasts. And I’m focused on the podcasts and I’m not thinking okay, but what if 10 years from now, what do I want to do with this with this with this, let’s gather podcasts like what I’m thinking like long term in mind you do, you’re just asking me like, Yeah, but I’m actually talking about next week is really like I’m just always out there. And so it’s like, you and I are talking about, you know, next week or whatever. When I should really just be fully in tune just next week, because that’s really what the primary conversations but I wonder not from like an ADHD perspective, but I wonder like really further out because I’m always thinking further out but like, if you’re thinking so far ahead and you’re not physically in present time passes you by so quickly. Because think about it, you’re setting all these milestones and these milestones are so far ahead. It’s fun sitting a 10 year milestone, every single day. I’m just looking forward to that to hitting that 10 year milestone. But what am I doing in the day to day basis? Yes, I’m doing the things to get me there. But I’m on autopilot because I’m not physically present. And that’s something I’m trying to actively work on. So that’s something I also talk to my board of directors about, and that’s why they recommend like, hey, when you go to have fun, focus on having fun. Don’t try to freakin elongate the fun or time just to like, have fun dude, and like let things go. If you’re having a conversation that you find it to be one that’s adding value. Enjoy it for a while. While You can make it last. Don’t focus on how you can make it the best type of conversation with SMP stop trying to always make everything be about being the best or being the worst. Not everything so black and white like that, because I’m not sure if you ever took the Gallup strengthsfinder test, like my number one, right? So you’re probably you’re probably gonna be aware of this, but like my number, one attribute was achiever. And then it was achiever focus learner, competition and restorative. So with achiever, I’m always constantly thinking of ways to win win win, win win competition, I’d have to win learner I’m looking to learn and focus once I in on something dude, like a fire could be happening around me and I will not even be able to see like, that’s I have a killer sense of focus which can work out but can also suck. So when crunch time happens and I need to focus on getting it done. But likewise, at the same time, a lot of things are on hold. And that becomes a problem because like when you also have a family where the case may be and you’re so focused into your work and not able to allocate time to them. Don’t feel some type of way. But you’re so focused that you don’t realize that you’re sometimes focusing on the wrong thing. Because at the end of the day, school and jobs are not things that are here to stay, you’re only here for a temporary amount of time, but our family and our friends are here to ideally stay for a long time. And if we’re not adding value to them simply how we expect to get value from them, they can also cut us off this thing with this cut off with this, you know, cut off, cut off movement, right, you know, new friends, new friends, cut off everybody, whatever, fine, but like, everybody’s always focusing on cut off this cut off that but they don’t focus on the fact that we can be cut off too, because we’re always looking at the outside and thinking the outside is negative when we don’t realize that we can be toxic for ourselves. And I always have to be self introspective and ask myself, am I being toxic to my friends? am I adding value to my friends? You know, and so usually like after COVID is over and before co but I made a goal where it’s like, every week I wanted to make sure I went out to eat or went out to catch up with at least three friends and we do something And we’re fully in the moment. And I’m not talking about my job, they’re not talking about their job. We’re just talking about what we want to do in life. We’re talking about that moment in that moment that we’re in, like, how can we truly maximize experience? Let’s do Life is too short. Like, keep in mind like Dude, Kobe died right off their retirement, bro. Like, that’s real. You know, like, like you look at you know, men, you know armored Armory and you look at George Floyd like these who are relatively young people, like they die just like that. Benjamin Hartford bro, like a kid who graduated from brew college passed away. You don’t I’m saying that’s a really, it really hits you in some perspective and you’re like, yo, screw this whole frickin 40 5060 year old, you know, 60 you know, out in the future mantra to an extent we need to focus about today though, because I don’t know that I’m gonna get up to go to you know, to see tomorrow. But I want my friends and my family know that I love them to know that I actually care about them to know that I appreciate them. sticking around when I was doing the dumps that I was doing, and also to know that I really appreciate them when I was going through the dark times, and they were there to hold it down, you know? And how do you go about doing that will constantly give that sense of reassurance? Don’t say you’re gonna wait for a time that you’re a millionaire start giving back? How do you know that they’re gonna live to see you become a millionaire? How do you know you’re going to even live to make that happen? You know, I’m saying, like, that’s like, how I try to think now is like, I realize like, life is too short for us to be caught up in these like super long term goals and not really focus on what we could be doing on a short short term basis. Because it matters, man, it matters. So yeah, that’s kind of where my head is at right now in terms of really trying to make sure that like, my relationships are seriously on point. And make sure anything that I do is something that adds value to me and also adds value to someone else. Because if again, if I’m receiving value, and I’m not giving out value, that’s a negative because then I’m being selfish. I try my best to cut down on the selfishness. Keep in mind, there’s always gonna be selfish decisions at play. I’d be lying to you To draw a fully selfless person I’m definitely not but I try my best to be as selfless as I can could accept that I can.

Zeke: Good stuff with me my strengths are includer arranger achiever, learner and responsibility. So I understand that because my brain right now multiple types of  I see that.  Yeah. How well how do you see that?

Zakari: Yeah, I see that arranger yeah so you’d be like trying to arranged information. Yeah,

Zeke: Yeah definitely I’m always

Zakari: Like to be with you right like when you say when you say arranger cuz when I’m thinking when you say arranger I’m thinking like, okay, so that kind of makes sense to the podcast right like you’re able to organize information you’re able to kind of figure out how like by being by being an arranger that would make you naturally good planner. So like if I ever wanted like someone to be a project my Manager, I would want to call up someone who has an arranger type of quality. Um, and then responsibility. Like you said, you already kind of alluded to this earlier when you said that you had responsibility to your assembly, and that you want to be that role model and you take ownership. And all you got to like, I also worked with you when? Because I believe, I believe at one point in time, you were part of Femcode, right? Yeah, I’m not mistaken. Yeah. Right. No, no. And I was able to see kind of like how you’re moving. And I mean, I know you did step down at a certain point. But prior to that I’m you’re, you’re doing exactly what you needed to do. You know, I mean, whatever the team needed from you, you were able to fully deliver, when you realize that you had other things that you wanted to do, and you kind of stepped down but you misread when you stepped down, you find another person to kind of take your place. And now and now and that was dope, that was dope. And I feel like that takes a different type of person to kind of know how to make those moves and make those moves in a way that isn’t fully disruptive to the team. And that’s where the responsibility thing comes into play. Because you realize I could be anything. My name is tied to this. And because my name is tied to this, I want to make sure that when I leave it, I leave it in the best way possible. If like, if you don’t really have that under understanding of responsibility, or accountability, it’s not going to lead you to think or even care so much to even allow for for a smooth transition. So that’s what I meant by I was able to see those two.

Zeke: Okay, cool. I just want to see how people view me because I know how I view me but then I always be the same as other people because they might see things I don’t see. Was that that I also see how people view me because I know how I view myself. But that might not be the same as others because people always see things you don’t see. That’s why I ask why.

Zakari: All right, like the johari window where we talked about like the hidden self, the now and self unknown. So yeah, make sense. I understand that makes sense. Yeah, absolutely.

Zeke: And that that also said I was watching Like, there’s times where like, we went on my summer job where everything was going wrong. And I just took a grater. I’m the assistant, but I just took charge. Because like, I was wondering, I just wanna make sure you’re safe when you get home. And I was like, I was lost the entire day. But like, I just had that instinct like, no, this is all going wrong. I’m gonna take charge. I’m in charge now. And how, also like,

Zakari: Absolutely. And I’m sure you did, and I’m sure you did the roles really well as well. Yeah,

Zeke: Disaster but you everybody go home safe. And I’ll also you’re saying, I’m also thinking, Oh, my

Zakari: God, you got your thing accomplish and

Zeke: How like my brain right now just running in my mom always telling me to slow down.

Zakari: You said right now.

Zeke: My brain is running right now most of being about 500 things.  And my mom always told me to slow down right Yeah, listen, this is a good conversation.  So I see the time was running down. So the last segment

Zakari: No for sure. Dude, for sure, dude and right.

Zeke: You can go ahead. Did you say something?

Zakari: No go for it.

Zeke: So the last time it,

Zakari: No, it’s gonna. No, it’s gonna say that with respect to the whole you know? I’m running, running.

Zeke: Just last name your origin story,

Zakari: The respect to the whole run running.

Zeke: Like, go ahead your are you today (inaudible).

Zakari: Okay, got it. Um, so like, how would I name it your thing? Yeah. How would I name my origin story? I would say Oh, that’s a good question. How would I name it?

Zeke: The how would I name my origin story?

Zakari: Okay, the, the poetic prince who wrote poems not for people to cry or to think, but for people to be inspired.

Zeke: Nice. Oh, well, thank you. Anything last thing so let’s say a promotion.  

Zakari: My pleasure. My pleasure. Thank you very much for having me.

Zeke: No problem. Thank you for being interested.

Zakari: Yeah, I love what you’re doing, Zeke, I think this is awesome. I’ve been, I’ve been. I’ve also been, you know, following your podcast and listening to some of the different content that you have. I think you’re doing great with this. I really do. Look forward to seeing how far you’re able to take this. And I look forward to listening to more podcasts. And for anyone else who’s listening if you have an opportunity to join on this, let’s gather podcasts. Make sure to sign up. Zeke is a great host great person as well. Great personality because actually those firstly outside of outside of just this podcast and and my interactions with you have always been nothing but but but amiable and friendly and you always like are smiling and I see you always talking to people and trying to try to give back in ways that you can’t just keep doing what you’re doing. And I’m proud of you and and i hope with respect to you saying that you wanted to figure out what you want to figure out. Hopefully you’re able to do that soon. And hopefully once you do figure out What you want to do, hopefully able to pass that knowledge on to certain people that are kind of going through that exact same trial and tribulation, and also help you become like the better mentor, mentor figure that you want it to be to your to your little sibling as well.

Zeke: Thank you have a nice day,

Zakari: My pleasure.

Zeke: That brings another episode of the Let’s Gather Podcast to a close. I again like to thank Zakari: for coming on the show. For next week. I would make it a solo podcast to talk about how I’m processing the current state of the world. I hope you continue to have a nice day and hope to see you there.

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