2020: Politics and Covid-19

Joel Desouve: I’ll be honest with you, I am shocked the way it is. This government is handling. Um, COVID. I mean, they politicize it, they made it like so many people are dying. and still they don’t have like a huge plan. Like a macro plan as of how we should help the people, because it’s

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Zeke: I like to welcome everyone to another episode of the Let’s Gather Podcast. I’m your host, Zeke, this episode I have another friend named Joel to speak about COVID-19 2010, Haitian earthquake, and much more, you can listen to the podcast on all major platforms, including YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts by clicking the link in the description below or going to https://allmylinks.com/letsgatherpod, please rate it five stars. I like to give a content warning for any strong language used in this episode. I hope you have a nice day and enjoy the show. So thank you for coming on the podcast.

Joel Desouve: Yes, it’s my pleasure to be with you.

Zeke: And the first question I like to ask is what would your origin story be?

Joel Desouve: I’m sorry, can you repeat the question again?

Zeke: What would your origin story be?

Joel Desouve: Um, I think about COVID. Let’s head over to COVID. Let’s talk about COVID. Let’s talk about the earthquake that I I we had in Haiti in 2010. And that helped me to kind of like stay home. Still full and not to depress during college here in the US. Yeah. Yeah. It’s kind of like, oh, a, a past experience. I’ve been on it and to stay hopeful and can help other people.

Zeke: Yeah. So. So with that, how, so? You said like I remember that earthquake in 2010.

Joel Desouve: Yes. It was in 2010. Yeah. January 12. Yeah.

Zeke: I remember got the news was in newspapers. How did you stay hopeful in that time compared to now?

Joel Desouve: Yeah, I mean, I think that like, for me, it was different. It was very odd, in a way that is the first time something like that happened to us. So the experience was strange. No one knows. Like, what will be the next step after like, beyond it? What would it be? Because, for us, I mean, for me, especially, it was like, okay, this is the end of the world. So, there is no after that, because, like, um, people died, so many people died. Um, as of now, people are talking about 200,000 or something. Some people talk about more than 200,000, I would say, and imagine like, here in the US, so for the past three months for COVID. So, in depletion of 320 million people, you’ll have around 170,000 people died, right. But for us, in a population of around 10 million people, let’s say it’s close to the population of New York City, and you have 200,000 people die. So that’s that was like, a huge issue and a huge burden for us and so many building collapse. And we didn’t know what to do with so yeah, was really tough.

Zeke: And since then, has like that got, not going to say easier just is like, I’d be able to process it better.

Joel Desouve: Oh, people are talking about patient being resilient. And I was reading an article and the article said Oh, no talk of us being busy and because we have we have been through a lot so it’s, we don’t know what to do that why is like we put our faith in God our in our period of like, like whatever or whatever religion we believe in. So we put our faith and we are trying to do everything on our own because we can’t count on our government we can count on. I’m really on the international so we are trying to do okay, what what we can so either travel to other countries who try to do our own revolutions. So yeah. So in terms of are we getting better? I don’t think so. But I would say one thing is we are passable, as quick. So we are no longer in the quick era. But are we getting better? I don’t know. I don’t know. Because actually, we have a storm going on. The storm called Laura is doing a lot, right. They’re getting a lot. We don’t know. We don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know what to say.

Zeke: Mother nature is not kind of time.

Joel Desouve: Yeah, I mean, it’s Yes, it’s it’s let’s say it’s combined, it’s really is mother nature, because Haiti the way it’s located at it, that is the place if you look at it in the Caribbean. So it’s, it’s, I mean, it will always happen, because we will always have to face arms, and stuff like that. But at the same time, it’s not really only on Mother Nature, it’s on our government, because the same earthquake happened in Dominican Republic in other Caribbean countries. So they didn’t have the same catastrophe, they didn’t have the same number of death, you understand? So it’s really up to the government to invest in help the people and prevent them from construct from building in on safe areas, by rivers by places that we didn’t know if, in fact, it’s not safe. So it’s up to the government. It’s not really Mother Nature, it’s mother nature. Yes. But it is up to the government. It is up to the people, but specially up to the government to enlighten them to empower them to invest. The country’s stop stealing the money, not stealing the money, but invest in the country. Yeah.

Zeke: Similar to like, right now with COVID, United States go away everybody was like, has been done, what could be done?

Joel Desouve: I mean, I’ll be honest with you, I am shocked the way these government is handling. Um, COVID. I mean, they politicize it, they’ve made it like so many people are dying. And they still they don’t have like a huge plan, like a micro plan, as of how we should help the people. Because if it is one thing, it’s not only good, because it is one thing, but it’s the financial burden, because I know for sure, so many big businesses, they have to close because they can’t survive ethically, because they were closed for two weeks for three weeks, four months. And now they can’t sustain themselves. So they have to close. So so many people would win, quote, you know, like the student, you know, when used to work, like either do internship, paid internship or work in your university, everything is closed isn’t allowed. It’s online, so you don’t know what to do like the process to get it new job. Now, it’s more difficult, especially that you want to do full time school like, so you can’t work full time. And you don’t want to work in a place that they will ask you, oh, you have to do sacrifices, you have to be willing to go extra hours. And now you will be less and less engaged less and less motivated to go to school letting that do your work. Yeah, like your homework, your work studies. So it’s kind of like finding our money is not easy. Like Yes, so many thing and the government is like Yo, just thinking about getting reelected that’s it.

Zeke: So yeah, 2020 was just a combination of everything at the same time.

Joel Desouve: Dude, you got it you got everything happened once you got it. You got elections. You got government, you got racism, you got so many issues. I mean, for me, like the way I mean, I like some of them. Like for example, racism, um, people not being able to work to work full time and go to school full time, and people not being able to have to kind of like this and think whether to go to school have to go to work, or whether to pay the MetroCard or to buy food whether to pay the rent. Do you know pay for the phone bill? So I have known on that before, so it’s nothing new for me. But the issue is with kind of like, oh, I used to cover everything now I uncover everything. So it is here it is covered, just uncover everything. So you see racism, see people being caught. You see people like, don’t have health insurance events. People don’t have like, like, their mortgage going on foreclosure. So you have everything covered, just uncover everything is like, okay, here, deal with it.

Zeke: Yeah, I think those problems are new, and just that everybody’s seen them. And they happen. Like is the way the news um (inaudible) like it’s happening all at the same time. The first time, which is kind of always been happening.

Joel Desouve: Yeah. I mean, yeah. I mean, like, for example, I’ve stopped stop. Question and frisk is something that they have been like, specially in New York City. So it’s something they have been dealing with it like for years, I remember, I interned for the New York City Council. And one of the reasons why I interned the council is because of those issues, like stop and frisk, how the city treats black and brown people. It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s bad. It’s really bad. So it’s nothing new. And we have papers, we have risk researches. Which such as I’ve been doing the work, we have so many papers, we have so many articles on those issues, there’s nothing new, nothing like equal pay, women of color, and I’d be treated surely on women of color have to go into domestic violence, bullying through so many other issues. It’s nothing new. It’s nothing new. It’s nothing new. Yeah, I like I like the way I mean, the news, like the frame things, sometime they are looking for buzz. And they were like, Oh, this is a bus here. Okay, let’s frame it in a way. And let’s not talk about the will issue that that thing about the world thing that’s been going on for years, let’s just focus on what can make us make money. So let’s focus. Oh, yeah, that’s about let’s go. So it’s not we have to do better than that. And especially elected officials, they have to do better than that. In a way to help people empower people and take about the issues and try to implement solution or resolution that can improve those people live. We we are New York City, we are united states, the greatest country on Earth, the richest country on earth.

Zeke: And there’s definitely a conflict of interests and what’s a balance for COVID everybody has a stake like my job was losing money, but the people are large lose and when people lose family members trying to put a $1 amount on life.

Joel Desouve: Yeah, I mean, I remember the first like the first few weeks like after George Floyd death, and then one of my consequences was something about looting. He was like oh, but testing is that of a looting if you’re looting things you’re breaking down things so it’s no longer a protest so like okay, yo you’re not protesting guys so just go home? I’m like no, you’re so wrong you’re so wrong. Because like for what we know just let just think about 2008 and now in 2020. So whenever companies, whenever bank going bankrupt, they have issue money issue the government always they’re always coming here the corporate like the government always try way to bail them out. You understand? The but whatever the lives so there is no way you can win. Bails, someone’s out like, is it oh, okay. George Floyd, whatever you can give your family. Um, you can do. The guy’s family. Millions of dollars. He will never get back. Understand. We are not Taylor. She’ll never get back. So it’s not people have to think about lives lives is more important than everything. So money you can always the government always like, say, Okay, let’s, let’s, let’s bail them out let’s let’s try to check let’s give people’s money what the government can just implement the laws and say okay, so now we provide everybody with health care insurance, okay, let’s do it. But whenever you have people like died, there’s nothing you can do with that. So they got, like we have 170,000 people died, like COVID they’re gone, they die they bigger. So when you have around let’s say around 170,000 family mourning the their friends or relatives live now so life always always always worth more than money and then anything else.

Zeke: And then just like what you’re doing in with all like um a like injustices is just like riot seemed like or seeming was like why they even though argument like that at um what you call it like equal rights like, oh Michael Che, so he was like, how somebody could be against that was like, no.

Joel Desouve: I mean, I, I like I was watching the DNC, the Democratic National Convention. So Obama said something, I mean, former President Obama said something like, for us as a given and for them they have. But I mean, for me, it’s even a given like, it’s beyond giving. You understand. So I came from Haiti like, and Haiti, we have our issues, we have our issues, we have lots of issues, and we have even, like, this combination of prejudices, we have our issues like, but what for us, like, just someone think, Oh, just because you’re black, you was less than somebody else. Just because you’re African American. So they have to put you in um priority. Okay, you have white people you have asian Nope. I don’t understand that. You understand? There’s so many things that I don’t understand. I can’t process I can’t process. Yes. I don’t know. For some reason. It made sense for me. So if you you’re not read or you’re less educated, you know, you can Oh, I don’t know for some reason in the past I I did make it sense. I mean, he, they kind of right. But I don’t think the same way anymore. I think that everybody has like they have the same worth. There was like the same right now. But I mean, it’s a given it’s a given people people white white, it’s a given. So, whatever the issue regarding human rights. I think it’s worth fighting. It’s worth thinking about it. It’s worth putting it in front of the elected official and people that can make decisions.

Zeke: Yeah, this a fight that’s going to continue forever seems like an every version of fashion.

Joel Desouve: I’m sorry, I missed I missed something. I don’t know because

Zeke: (inaudible) I just said it’s like fighting for the right equal rights. A problems gonna happen forever. Or because it seems like it doesn’t it. A lot of things and just doesn’t change. Well, it doesn’t go away. Just adapt to the changes.

Joel Desouve: Yes, but it still broke up. I don’t know. It’s still working. Now table I don’t know.

Zeke: I’m just saying that all just as this and see, like, always adapted to the changes of times and then that is always a fight. Did you have to continue?

Joel Desouve: You’re talking about justice, just like injustice. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um, I mean, I don’t know like, Okay, if I understand it, what you said. I mean, for me, people, they have the issues and usually in the US, people have been racism like they have racist for like, forever. But the government does make it so, okay for them to talk about it, to, to like to, to feel comfortable on is recording them people, I think gone on there and people do bad things like while someone is working, recording them. So this government I don’t know, some some watch make it, so okay for them. I think it’s not a good thing. Like, it’s not a good thing. But at the same time, justice is, let’s say the criminal justice system justice in general the way that we think about the Supreme Court and all the elements, the court why I think they they take time to go to a justice to take time to take decision to make improvement. They are not, they are not fast enough for me. Yeah, not? Because I don’t know, it’s because of, you know, you have two political party or to group of people. So whenever you do one thing, and the other one will be Oh, no, no, no, you’re taking our, like, you’re taking? Like, I don’t know, you are doing bad to us. If you do this. Try to know, but they’re not fast enough. I think they they should be like faster.

Zeke: Oh, yeah. Congress is very slow. Even with just dealing with the cases that saving change anything. Just deal with that was situation that (inaudible) very slow.

Joel Desouve: It is very slow yeah.

Zeke: Even I think even though history has changed has always been slow, though. Well, in American history, the United States history.

Joel Desouve: Yeah, I think it’s because I mean, it’s like I think being being slow is some way good. Because when you have for example, when you have the Constitution, so you don’t want to have a petition that people can change, like, from Oh, can I mean to more to more like, Okay, let’s do it tomorrow, let’s do it. No, you don’t want that. You want to have a fair process, a long process? It tedious process, but you want it to happen, like in some kind of time frame right time limit, you don’t want to be going on forever. So I don’t know. Yes, I like it to be slow, fair, thoughtful process. But at the same time, I don’t like it to be going on forever. It’s a cycle. It’s like it’s Purell. You’re going on, you’re going on, you’re going and nothing changed. Nothing happened. No, I don’t like it. I don’t think it’s good. I don’t, I don’t think at all.

Zeke: Like, um the government, the um what I was saying un U.S. history. It was like Congress always like they’ll come together, have a problem. Talk about it, and then push it up to the next generation. And then wait, we got all colonies coming together those. So we had to do a savory. That din’t get delt with until the Civil War.

Joel Desouve: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think since the foundation of the nation, so they had a moment to deal about slavery. So they said like, they didn’t mention it in the Constitution. They didn’t do anything about it. Right. They didn’t do anything. So we have to wait until years after in 1865. Because, like, so many years after, like, so. Yeah, I don’t, I don’t know. Um, let like now, like one of the issues that they know for five, he is a weird burden on the y’all. On the youth. It’s a loan like student loan, student loan, because you want to educate yourself, you want to go to school, and you want to go to a good school, and good school. It’s me mean a lot of money. is a good school. I mean, a lot of money. Here in the US is like whenever you think about like a good school, you have to take a lot of money. Like so you have to take out a loan because most of the time you don’t have like especially black and brown people. They don’t have the parents to be able to like own hours, take a mortgage from the hours and then discover them. So they have load. And then when you take that look out, you have to take out with it. Because is that just you graduates today? And tomorrow you got a job? I mean, first of all, it’s happened like that, but not all of us. It’s not like for the many, like the majority. So it’s a song. Yes, I mean like that. So you have to pay the loan, I think, six months after you graduate from university, you have to start paying the loan. And then now you have a huge amount of money to pay back. And then you have to slow down on thinking creating the family to buy. I was like, Oh, girl, so you’re kind of like, trapped in a wave that, yes, you have that education, us you have that job. You have to pay back the loan. And the government is not doing something meaningful to help you with that. So they have we have a trillion debt. When combined all the student loan debt, why it’s like trillion. Congress. Congress doesn’t want to do anything. They’re like, it’s government, we have the GI Bill. It’s government. It’s finished petition presidential. election, you haven’t interviewed it, and then let’s move on. It’s, oh, I promise. I promise this, I promise you that care is a big issue and profit again, show us how important it is for someone to have a pension. Because some people didn’t go to the hospital just because someone called me so some people, they didn’t go to some people, they didn’t go to hospital because of their health insurance. They don’t have insurance. And some people they go to the hospital, and then I so they get treated from COVID. Right? They have a bill of thousands of thousands of dollars. Like I remember a lady. And she was like, Oh, she was $33,000 a guy was like, Oh, $60,000 how they are going to pay back? How are they going to be bad? I mean, I think that for New York state that the government make it like emergency whenever you go to any hospitals. So if you get treated for COVID, you will not be charged any fee. Any fees, but I don’t know for others that I don’t remember that it’s the same way so it’s a lot.

Zeke: Debt and loans are just weird situation. We hear about how the government got people into it, like to get us into the situation because they gave out loans. And then more people took an loan and the colleges was like, okay, so the prices go up. There’s more demand. And then now everybody just like, okay, now what is it? Yeah.

Joel Desouve: Yeah.

Zeke: Yeah. Similar hospitals. A what the prices of I forgot why I think was insurance was made the prices go up.

Joel Desouve: Insurance a lot.

Zeke: All the hospitals parents were like, Oh, yeah. Officers, they’ve made their own presses or hospital work? Oh, yes. Yes.

Joel Desouve: I mean, no money when you when you get a health insurance, okay, it’s fine. But when you don’t get the insurance is so expensive. Like, even to get I don’t know, to get tested for something or to get a chair like that meet the bare minimal, meet a minimum. It’s a cost a lot cost a lot. I mean, if you really want to go back in which way that makes halfbreed back in Haiti helped me stay hopeful and not depressing. That that I don’t know I can explain it. I remember like I like as I explained, the effort was just momentum. So we spent the entire year of 2010 like to figure out like, what next? And we have a different situation when you have so many nonprofit organization like NGOs coming in for some money, and we were like, oh, by the end of the day, corruption, the money that appeared so we don’t see a way it goes but that’s a different story. But because of that situation, because have that experience. So when COVID, hop in, so I was at the, during the first week, I was really depressed and anxious, because I was thinking about my mom back in Haiti. And I said, Oh, my God, if this is the situation here in New York City in the US, so how will it be in Haiti, where we don’t have that many hospital where we don’t have that many resources? That like, No, we don’t have that many doctors and nurses? How would it be? So but thank God after we so the situation is not the same in the US? I feel like okay, I’m fine. But then I think about the (inaudible), and I say, okay, tomorrow will come, even COVID spin. I don’t know, (inaudible) We doubt ourselves, we, we take everything for granted, but in a way that we will, we will get back to normal. So I said, Oh, food, that’s why I started to I started to volunteer for some nonprofit organization in my neighborhood. I volunteer for it together. I continue to volunteer for Salvation Army, because I know there will be a tomorrow. So the only thing that I have to do to protect myself put on my mask, put my glasses on my claws and grow like spray myself whenever I I get in contact with people. But at the end of the day, I know for sure it will be more so I want when tomorrow happen. I say okay, I involved in it. I make things better for some people. So yeah, that was the end. I still kind of like I did my homework. I did my assignment. I did. I study for classes, I got a good GPA. So I continue with some of my because I was doing internship. So I kind of like continue with some, like one of them. Gerawan you kind of zone because we have to stop. But yeah, it was it was it okay experience on me. So it wasn’t that bad. That it seemed like for other people. It wasn’t that bad.

Zeke: Similar also that first week, I was like, oh, no, I’m scared. But at the time, it went back to um, okay, everyone was okay.

Joel Desouve: You slim on die. Hmm. They say you slept. You said you said you slept on time.

Zeke: No I just get back on to like, let’s get back.

Joel Desouve: Okay, okay. Okay, because I wasn’t I wasn’t able to sleep on time at all. Because I sometime I stay late. I really like. Because I’m, like, all of like, all over the internet. Like, surfing looking for news on COVID. Sometimes on john hopkins website. Try to try. Oh, I mean, what is that? All right now funny people die. Let’s see. Let’s see. Oh, bad. It is in New York City. And especially during the month of April. I remember we had like, people were dying and their family will let a to go to go to their funeral. I mean, like logical because not a group of 10 people were allowed to go anywhere. So ah. Anyway, anyways, so awfully now we are. We are behind the mountain as como like used to call it. We are behind the mountain. So now we are bending the mountain. So we are like I am like trying to stay six feet away from people that I can do that interview of course. Um, and what I like best, it’s that I’m able to go outside the outside because I hate being outside. I don’t like it. I don’t like being inside, like, Oh my god, I’m so isolated. I don’t like it. I like being like, people around people. I like I like to be around people. I love being around people obviously. Yeah. So it’s so refreshing that I can come here, have my coffee, have my you know, like some fresh water talk to people with my boo, you know, so it’s so refreshing is so good. And now that my local like the local businesses, they’re able to To survive, because people can come out and buy stocks. So I contribute with almost every day in making them keep going for the business. So we should do the same. You should go out buy stuff.

Zeke: I buy local use Uber. UberEats to get a local food.

Joel Desouve: Oh, you Oh, okay.

Zeke: Yeah. Yeah.

Joel Desouve: Okay. I mean, well, that is good, because not only that you’re helping the local business, but you’re helping the driver as well. Yeah. Yeah, that’s good. So, I mean, like, what, what’s your plan? I mean, when you heard about Haiti, so what was your thought at that time? Do you remember that?

Zeke: Yeah, I was in middle school. That’s 2010. So either that’s either seventh or eighth grade. I’m definitely going to what time of year was it? earlier?

Joel Desouve: It was January 12th.

Zeke:  So that was seventh grade.

Joel Desouve: Yeah. Yeah. The beginning.

Zeke: Oh, the I think a really big reaction as well. Just like, that sucks. is like seeing the newspaper and see like the people traped I was like, felt bad. Like, it didn’t like. So it’s just like, my fault. My family’s former United States. I really have a like, anybody outside of the country. Okay, okay.

Joel Desouve: So yeah, yeah, but did you have like Haitian  friend at that time?

Zeke: Yeah. I know, people. It was like, more like, it was more like, how people in the United States  like, a lot of problems in other countries is like their problem. And it can’t happen to us. Those more of like, in that realm was like, it’s more removed for me.

Joel Desouve: Yeah, yes, yes. Yes. Yeah, I have the sense. Like, when I’m here, I remember. Mix, mix, mix equal, like they have to have. And I remember, like, Japan has this storm. I remember, like so many other countries, things happen to them while I was in the US. And I’m like, Okay, okay, these are what they are dealing with, compared to what I dealt with makin in Haiti. But it’s kind of like, we move why we move for me, but because I can relate to like, I can go back and remember it while I relate to them and feel Oh, my God, like, I have that empathy. I feel like, sorry for them, right? Because of my past experience. But it’s not because Oh, the way that the news is telling it or the way I’m seeing it, the cheesy. So if it was for the TV, I would be Oh, that’s fine. Let me help in some way. But that’s it, that’ll be it. But because of the experience that I had, I feel Oh my God, that’s terrible. Especially the thing that I’ve been on to be in the root like we would say go like the thing that I’ve been in the room in the woods. I’m in Lebanon. Oh my god. It’s kind of like a similar thing in a way like just a few seconds or just a few less than a minute and things pull up so it’s kind of a similar and I can’t I can relate to that. I cannot Okay, this is what they are doing it so hunger, um, lack of food, lack of clean water, lack of safety, they have to stay outside they don’t have you know, they have to be in a tent. So I can relate to that now because I understand it. Yeah, I went through it.

Zeke: Yeah, they wouldn’t say so. We lose the setup is more of like next story the story The next day next story. But after you see one traumatic event, see another one so you kind of get desensitized and the the just because that will say I don’t want to say it’s expected. But it’s more like, it’s like it happens that okay. Am I affected? No. Let me go. Okay. Yes. Okay, cool. What’s that? What’s next?

Joel Desouve: Yeah, I think we did. It was yesterday or two days ago yesterday. I don’t remember. I switch off use. I don’t know if used to see those trucks. They they say oh, storm, tracker. Like they are chasing storms. Like wherever they feel like there would be a storm they would go there and track it. Especially when you have tornadoes. Like, they are like that they are trackers, they are looking for. Like, okay, that thing makes sense. People will want to know about it people will buy it will be like it. Let’s focus on it for now. And then let’s move on to something more interesting. Oh, I don’t know. I think like being thoughtful about it, I think that, um, again, former President Obama, he mentioned that he mean, changed the way that the news like, like the wall and the job in making the democracy better, making the environment better and making people more aware of things. So he talked about that. And I think it’s a very necessary thing to do. So to make people aware of that, for example, let’s, again, go back to Haiti, we have that going on right now. or lower. And when I call people back home, like, oh, be careful, because I heard there was a some green on some of some of the people that were outside. And some of them they were like, on a tree, they were traveling, they’re like, Oh, we didn’t know that. Because we didn’t have electricity, the government to tell, let us know about that. The government tells us about it. So you see, you have the government and you have the media. So hands in hands, they did it so poorly job, that people that were outside doing just off while the storm was coming, and they didn’t know. And some of them, like, unfortunately, there will be die. Because of that, they will die. Because they’ll probably go outside dude, going for their business. And then when for their business, and then the stuff happened, and then they they get cut off, they get cut off. So this is what we want. We want a government that is responsible, and we want the news on the media to be very, very engage in thoughtful about what they should be doing. I mean, some of them are doing it. Well, I’m not saying that. Some of them are doing it well. But we don’t want like, it’s kind of like the same way you don’t want a doctor to be is not bad. You don’t want your doctor to be like that. You want to be good. You’re good. You don’t want to be that bad. No, you want your driver to be good. Because you’re not going on, like on a trip, why you will not travel and take into take yourself into an airplane and know that the pilot is like his average is average, you know, you want it to be good to be perfect, right? So the same way. So you want the government to be very responsible. And you want the media to be engaged into the job really well. Not partially, not one, like a percentage of them, but the majority and all of them. So that’s that’s why I’m asking. And that’s what I’m hoping will happen. Soon what yeah. I mean, I was I would ask you, what’s your thought on that? What do you think about that? Like, don’t you think that it should be that way? Like the government’s the one want to set for the people and the majority? Not one. We’re like the 1% Oh, a percentage, but the majority, and you want the media to be willing to do the job and focus in helping people to be aware of things will issues? Oh, yeah, let’s see. Yeah. Maybe no government accountable for what they should be doing.

Zeke: Yeah, that’s definitely. Oh, definitely like the dream or like the ideal that’s always pushed with is always since the government made the people and then people can make their own decisions. It’s always is how do you make that incentive? People were in the United States people work off incentives. What”s in it for me? (inaudible).

Joel Desouve: Well, yeah, capitalism. How everybody is like time is money. I don’t want to sound, is like like that. I got this mindset is like so awesome time when people are like, oh, I miss money. So I don’t want to waste my time. Because sometimes I don’t understand, like to inform themselves to learn about things, is that wasting time? It’s better in some way, because now you will be able to take right decision, thoughtful decision decision that is you like that is the best? Because so now let’s move on right now, do you think you can make the best decision that will make your project successful? And some people that I know, I don’t have that money is money. But you want to make money. You don’t want to meet the bare minimum you want to make, like money to live and be able to help others. That’s what I think.

Zeke: Yeah. And then with that is who know, this is always because people will help those who help them the most. So you help like the president who has all the money, it has all the resources, all the people, you have to give more, and they may or may not get back to you.

Joel Desouve: I mean, there was about Ebola. I mean, normally, when someone has nothing, and you get that you get that person. Like, let’s say for example, someone has nothing like like a dime, we don’t like doesn’t have time for the day. Like today, for example, person is like, okay, it’s blank. I don’t have a dime, I don’t have any hope. I don’t have nowhere to go. That person when you give the person like $10 $20 That’s a lot. But some for someone who has a million dollars, give the person like, one guy doesn’t know. Yeah, it’s more money. But I don’t know. It’s not the same impact on the sense that it’s impact impact. So for me, I think it is the government job chain of doing the greater impact make the most important impact, like try to change them, like the people want a new change, not the one will already reach millionaire to give them more money. More money to buy a house, more money to buy a house, more money to buy a second yacht, more money to buy I don’t know, my second helpling or they can the Duke the airplane like the money they buy the airplane they they can they do it for the tax. You know, that a like tax return? I think it’s you need to focus on the one that in me, the one that can barely pay the rent every month, the one that can that are doing a check, by check. My check leaving. So okay, I got the check today. So let me do what I had to do today. But I don’t know about tomorrow. Because what I have on the face the bill saw this morning on the week. Yeah, I mean, we’ve been billed for a month. So let’s just pay for this month. So now for the month, I am covered. I got my head paid, I got my fun build pay, I got this big. I got my health insurance paid. But I don’t know about next month. So let’s hope next month, come the same way. So you won’t be people could be living that way because it’s anxiety, the stress, people will get their blood pressure will be always high. The people will get developed diabetes, people will have all sorts of issues, because they will be in a constant mindset of fear. And when you fear you have all the disease depressed anxiety the high blood pressure, blood like diabetes, heart attack, mental illness, you have all them in mind. So you want people to can think like six months. A year I heard like people can you know, relax. Can we live Like, healthy people live longer. People want to be laughs they don’t want to be like, going crazy every day around like, I don’t know, people want to be relaxed. So the government need to help them to be relaxed to know or to relax, to take some time to have a life. Don’t have a life, like some of them don’t. A lot of them don’t have a life. They can take your time, like an hour to sit down in last, having a good life. A good laugh, like you can be in the United States and not be able to laugh. Like laughter in our like, a good laugh. not thinking about anything for tomorrow, like, You’re laughing, like, just fooling with pleasure. No.

Zeke: I Wonder how like to be a politician because you kind of job is to keep getting reelected. Yeah. And then this kind of like a high focus or focus on what’s going on right now. You always have to worry about how you keep your job. They get others fields, like if you’re good at your job, we’re gonna keep like, good (inaudible) gonna keep it but a doctor doesn’t always have to, like, worry about staying a doctor. He’s gonna keep doing his patients. And then to say that,

Joel Desouve: Yeah, I mean, I mean, if you are via it, it always an elected official. Okay, yes, that’s true. But you can be a politician and not being elected official. Like you can do other things. So you can be a consultant. They can be an advisor, you can be you can do other things. If you want to be really good all the time. I mean, for some people, it’s easy. I know. For some people, it’s easy. Okay, let’s say for Ocasio-Cortez like, I don’t know. I mean, for me is it’s a it should be easy for her to get reelected as maytime because she’s work. She’s doing a great job. Let’s just take her for example. It shouldn’t be like that hard. Let’s let’s take for example, John Lewis, right. Okay, died. It’s someone that I admire. I admire a lot. Why? someone like him? I don’t know. Do you think it was difficult for him to get reelected, because he was always doing the job like fighting for people to to be able to do vote. They like fighting about, like, we’ll fight it’s not like random fight, like laughing and no light catch up, like yourself from the news is see where the cameras all and put yourself there. And like, you know, it showed me it was fighting, was fighting, constantly fighting his life. Like, since he was 22 when he died at the age of 80. Something 81 or something? always fight. So I don’t know. I don’t think it was difficult for him to get. So I think as soon as you are doing the job, the people that put you there will always and what I love about what they are loyal, they put you there, you do the job. They will get you a really good just like that. Yeah. I mean, I don’t know. I mean, besides being like elected official, you can be advisor you can be you can love you can be part of the Union, because you know, the system you can have the union.

Zeke: Yeah, that makes sense. But also like,

Joel Desouve: Like, but like what I’m afraid is never let them feel comfortable. So you don’t want your position to be comfortable. Don’t let them be stable, like, Oh, they take it for granted. Oh, I would get it really good. That’s easy. No. Like sometimes question them all the time wishing them all the time, even they are doing the job. But sometimes you don’t want them to get so optimal. And like it’s easy, it’s easy out Oh, it’s it’s an easy game. I will get a kid No. You want to get them accountable for what they are doing for laws or any policy that they are implementing. pushing them Yes, but if they are doing the job well Yes, we’ll end them but don’t let them get too comfortable.

Zeke: Yeah and to that make sense. Also like with a lot of people aren’t educated like a like the politician and stuff like that. So you they gonna vote on the name. So you hear the name a lot.

Joel Desouve: Yeah,

Zeke: That’s also like a lot (inaudible). But there is a still a factor that in that name recognition, people go on. Also that because they’re like alright I’m familiar with this.

Joel Desouve: Yeah. I mean, yeah, yeah. I mean, you, you, you, you are 100% correct on that. I mean, like, some people are just putting on the name or the body. Because sometimes they’re like, Oh, I am Democrat. So full ticket for Democrat, right? Like, oh, he is a Democrat, or she is a Democrat. Check, check, check, check, check, check, check it once again, a Democrat, right? Just because of the name of because of the party, or because of the name, but they don’t know the people were the person Well, they don’t know, the person’s background Well, enough. But it’s changing right now. I’m committed to organizer, they’re doing good. They’re doing a pretty good job in helping them change that change. Like in changing that. That’s a huge change. Because they are, you know, social media, they’re using social media platform. Instagram, Twitter, um, I don’t know. People see, oh, people more information. You know, they’re like this, you go community board, there’s so many structure that tried to inform the, like the people, I mean, still, you know, you’re busy, busy watching because they have to work to pay the bills. So you have to understand that they don’t have time to know about things of a politic because they are busy working. Because they have to pay the rent, they have to send us their kid to school, they have to pay the student loan back, they have to pay the mortgage, so they don’t have time. You know, at the same time, it’s changing. Because you have you have more people engage in politics right now then. I think ever before Yeah, specially like 2020 I think we have I I can recall that we have more people visited to vote now than ever before. So you have more people aware more people engaged in politics, so it’s changing in a good way. Let’s hope you can do it like that. So,

Zeke: Hopefully should be different this time.

Joel Desouve: It has to be it has to be it has to be Yeah, I mean, it has to be has to be definitely in the past me because I don’t know. Because I’m democrat I’m an immigrant. I don’t think it’s the way countries should be wanting like in hate. Say you have two groups of people. One here and do one like why they’re fighting constantly. No, you don’t want that. It has to change because like you want a prisoner to be even though I didn’t vote for you You are my still my president. I mean, I’m in the A someone vote for someone for president or the president at the end of the day, you are the person who visits point blank, you have to think about the person and you have to implement us see that we be in favor for the majority including that person. So you don’t want to be Oh, am the president of a group a one group in that no, you don’t have it you can have a country that divided that’s very divisive in terms of you vision sound good

Zeke: On that note I always wonder how true democracy like how that really function? Because they say the majority rules right? What ever percent that is. Yeah. Now what happens to the, let’s say 75% is the majority. What happened to the 25%? What would their emotion, what happen to like? That like, because difficult as the majority says, Yes, the other people doesn’t mean they’re gonna just go along with it all the time. Yeah. There’s no like they’re gonna do even go dig deeper into more into their own position.

Joel Desouve: Thank you have a I think it’s a really good question. And my way of answering it is sometimes a policy, let’s say a law that is in shiver of my being, not necessarily in disadvantage of your well being. Yeah. You agree with that, but like I am an immigrant, I came into the country, many immigrants is the government say, Okay, let’s implement something like a law. Like whenever someone from a different country come here, let’s screen that person and see what, what that person and brown is what, because people always have a story, they have a skills, right? Let’s see what that person can do. Not necessarily necessarily asking the person to go through a long process that’s empty, empty, but that person in the process, what we have now, let’s make it easier for the person to get along with the country to get into the country and become successful. It doesn’t mean like, that doesn’t mean it would be invisible. Do you understand? Because I was reading an article about Kamala Harris’s mother, when she came here in the US or because of her accent, heavy accent from India. So people didn’t take her seriously. Even though she came here to pursue a PhD degree, right, but people didn’t take her so usually at the beginning. And it is true for so many other immigrants, some of them they came with a master’s degree, they came with a PhD or doctorate degree, some, like most of them come with a bachelor’s degree. But in order to get into the process in coming here and integrate be part of this system, they have to I remember one here in school for English because I didn’t speak English. So I had to learn English. I went to a school for English. And then in that school, they have a GED class. And they were talking to me, I’m like, Oh, do you think you should be taking the GED? I’m like, No, I don’t need GED, I just need English class. Like, because I only want to speak English, I need to speak English because I already have my bathroom. I, I had my back. So I school diploma from my country. And I started, I’m a college degree already. So I’m a transfer student. So I just need English class. But if I didn’t have the capacity to say that I will have to go live, I will probably go to take GT class and start all over again. Because I met people who were doing that it’s a waste. It’s a waste of knowledge of potential of resources. It’s a waste completely waste. So okay, to get back to your question is, yes, it is not necessarily, when you have the majority vote for someone and that someone get elected. And you’re a group that essentially will be okay with that you get along with that. But you have to understand there is a compromise and some time, there is a place that we can come together, respect, being respectful. We can come together in that, like justice, if the government say, okay, we want the country to be safe. It’s a law that we benefit will be beneficial for all of us. It’s not only for me, oh, we want we want to have clean water. It’s a law or policy that will be beneficial for all of us. We want to have job like we have to we want to have like high paying jobs for our people. That will be beneficial for all of us. We want the economy to be good, that will be beneficial, even your further government against the government, that would be beneficial for all so slightly, the differences will be some other small, specific laws. It doesn’t mean that would be that would not be good for you. You don’t like it. I mean, you can be okay. It’s not your priority. You don’t care about that. But it doesn’t mean it’s against you. You understand? It doesn’t mean it’s against you. Immigration. Let’s talk about immigration. Even though some people they’re like, against immigration. They’re not really against it because politician friend of mine visited against it. Really against it. Because so many people I know so many people, they love to travel, some of them travel to other countries D ball in there with their cool church group helping people now praying for other people. But when it comes to immigration, Oh, we don’t like it was our job. Okay. Do you want to clean the toilet? No, I don’t want to do that. Do you want to go in the farm? Work? Like, no, I don’t want to do that. I do want to work in a restaurant like you like cleaning dishes. I don’t want to do that. Okay, so they’re not taking your job. Okay. Okay. Do you want to be? Do you want to be a firefighter? I don’t want to do that. Okay, do you want to be an astronaut? You have analogy, but want to become an astronaut? Oh, no, I don’t want to do that. Do you want to study hard? So we can be in a space because the United States has as a space for all of us to become successful. You understand? It’s a country of immigrants. It’s a space for all of us to become successful. So yes, you can you cannot be like you didn’t put that president but at the end of the day, the President is your President, the president all of us and he has to implement policies in law. All of us that’s what that’s how I understand it. We’re not alone. Okay. Yeah, go ahead.

Zeke: I’ll just say that’s the idea. is is that Yeah, sometimes I always think like doing like, everybody got wave on it. That doesn’t really make sense. Because some because some people want opposite things at the same time, like not that one person will like let’s say person a wants something blue and this person B was something red then sometimes people want different things at the same want the exact opposite at the same time because it gives them both.

Joel Desouve: I mean, I would say no government has the responsibility to say no and yes and to explain why that is possible and why not? That is not possible. You understand? So yes, we don’t have the same focus we don’t have the same priorities right. That’s it both of us we went to like you went to move I am still but if they will. Okay, we will create a park for people to endow but normally probably you are someone who just come to school and go is not something you want it’s something you care about. You can go to say okay, I don’t want to do that with my money. You can even go further to say that you want something complete something opposite. But if they would say okay, yes, we understand your point of view we understand why you think about it, you think of it that way, but let’s explain to you normally in this pool, you people need a space to him that would or net with other with other students before we assess this with you know, because you can be in this space that unneeded focus on school school school in that making friend and not like, enjoy, like, you know, a moment to think at the end of the day, you will understand it and you will probably say Yes, I’m fine. I understand. saw me I they are not okay with something okay, that and explain them why they should be okay with it. why it makes sense? Yes. Yeah. Okay. Okay. I am not fun, but I’m not against you. If you want but I don’t get you understand. Because let’s say for some people I know. Some people in the US they don’t have a passport. They don’t have a passport. So. So those people I don’t know they don’t intend to travel anywhere. So quit in our plan. Don’t create it bought for love, you don’t care but they don’t care about like a airport. Because they don’t care about that. They don’t probably they don’t care about what’s going on in more in moss in the universe. But they’re not against NASA, they don’t they’re not against having a plan they don’t have against, they don’t have nothing against the US want to know what’s going on in the world law. So you don’t have passport, that’s funny. Should have with me, you should, you should, you should have one, you should have one. This is really good this way with you. You want to be able to know what’s going on, like in someone’s culture, like go like, for example, come to Haiti, I will take you there and have some fun and different mindset about like to add the country. Because the best way to know about someone is to know the person like interact with the person. Snap, what they are reporting to you when they are telling you but meet the person meet. Meet with the person talk to the person in person. Yes. You should have I encourage you to have one. Get one.

Zeke: I was looking at one earlier this year but then New York turnt off. I was like, you know what, it’s time to wait in that application. I have the application over there.

Joel Desouve: Oh, yeah. Okay. Do it, do it, do it, don’t do it. And, like not only doing it, it’s good. But you have to understand as a professional, I’m having the capacity to, to understand other people’s point of view and try to immerse yourself in, in a different culture. It’s good for you to be like, I don’t know, a successful professional. Because you don’t want to be to be to think only about your perspective. See everything in your own angle. You want to be able to have that message. Critical thinking it’s useful. Yeah, understand things. Okay. Okay. I okay. It doesn’t make sense for the person. For me to do that thing. Why? Let’s understand it. Let’s see what’s behind. And at the end of the day, you will see Oh, okay, I understand it. Oh, I get it wrong. But yeah, I’m fine with it. Understand, but for you to do that you have to be willing to go further not be optimal here. But go travel and understand other people’s point of view, and see why it is so important for him. For example, I’m with my friend. Whenever she gives you an appointment, don’t be late. Don’t be late. Don’t be late night, even one minute not be late. For her disrespect, if you’re being disrespectful, to be late, even by one minute. Okay, I know, I have to go on YouTube and see why it is so important to be on time all the time. You understand it? It’s a culture thing. So understand people, you understand people’s mindset, travel, learn from other culture will give you a better broad understanding of the wall and you will be more knowledgeable. That’s the new cool like say, Oh, I used to travel and I know that country that country. tree I know shouldn’t be doing it. Dude in other countries and I travel in different states in the US. I travel a lot. Since I’m the I have been here I went to different states. I went to I went to bed I where I went too much said I went through I went to Delaware, New Jersey, of course New Jersey, Delaware. My husband said I’m okay, less than in Manchester said. I’m Pennsylvania Philadelphia in Pennsylvania. I went to Virginia. I went to Washington. Our time is not instant. But I went to Washington DC. So yeah, so I went to so many places. I went, I immersed myself. I stayed there. I think the food, I tried to understand the culture, either mindset, see the diversity, because everywhere is not like New York City, so they have their own diversity. So I see that diversity. Yeah. Not to travel.

Zeke: Well, definitely, most definitely. Spend time looking at the time.

Joel Desouve: So I mean, our talking to you, so it’s fun.

Zeke: So yeah.

Joel Desouve: So I don’t know if you have any questions or Wish me? I don’t know.

Zeke: Oh, it was a good conversation. Okay. Very informative. Maybe all I’m saying can you discuss ideas of each other? the creativity of you. experiences? Yes.

Joel Desouve: Yes. I mean, it was It was my pleasure. I mean, it will always be my pleasure to like to share my experience and learn from you as well. So I am I am open to any other, like discussion to any other different topic, even though we navigate to different topics. So we navigate about like, earthquake in Haiti. COVID in the US, (inaudible). Already? We talked about that thing. Oh, yes. But I’m open to talk about other things like, education, how you’re saying everything. So yeah.

Zeke: Education. Education is funny. Yeah, I think I think I think it’s important for schools, different than education.

Joel Desouve: I think I said education because it’s hard. It’s larger than just school. But I think school is very important, like, education. School is really, really, really important. Like family is the first one church or other group is very important. But definitely school. Because Don’t forget, you spent like, for me, I spent like, 14 years in school, just like for high school, not in my country. And then just spent like, four years in college, and I’m blue. My Oh, yeah. In other vacation like other, you know, degrees. So it’s a lot. So you learn a lot, not only from the professors, from your friends, and from what you’re learning. So it’s a large, it’s a very, very, very important, so it plays like it’s like school plays a huge part of what, what you become at the end of the day.

Zeke: I’m tired of going to school, I’ll keep learning.

Joel Desouve: I know. But yeah, but I don’t know. I don’t have that same feeling. I don’t know what to tell you. But I don’t have that same feeling because I love to learn. I love to go to school. I love to know, new thing.

Zeke: Oh, so well to myself. So I have to say, let me know, what did I do? What’s up? I say that I’ll have somebody Teach me.

Joel Desouve: All right, like try to have the best medium. I don’t know probably you can learn from I don’t know like multimedia, like videos, different platform. For probably, you can learn by immerse yourself in different culture in different from a training. Maybe you don’t like to be in a class all the time. I don’t know. Find the best medium for you. But for me, I love going to school. I love learning new things every single day. So if I’m not reading, I’m watching YouTube. If I’m watching YouTube, I’m talking to people if I’m not talking to people, I’m observing. I am trying to do something like that it will increase my knowledge every single day. Even the smallest thing I will always at the end of the day say okay, what did I learn today? Okay, what? What was new often?

Zeke: I’m out of ideas.

Joel Desouve: Yeah, yeah. So I would say thank you, man. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to chat with you. Yeah, I hope so my experience can be helpful. Helpful to other people. Um, yeah, definitely. Thank you so much.

Zeke: Have a nice day.

Joel Desouve: Yeah, let’s take a picture first like, like.

Zeke: That brings another episode of the Let’s Gather Podcast to a close. I would like to thank Joel for being a guest on the podcast. For next week, have a fellow alumni name Karon to speak about her journey in the corporate world. I hope you continue to have a nice day, and I hope to see you there.

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