Speaking with a Creative Director

Alex Little: I think it’s just about I think is my I think my biggest one of my biggest traits is resilience and positivity. When you asked me before as EQ, like, How do you stay resilient? I think part of it is like, confidence in yourself and reflection on where you went wrong in hacking. But I think it’s just is a total Another cool thing to check out. I already shared it with you, but,

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Zeke: I’d like to welcome everyone to another episode of the Let’s Gathr Podcast. I’m your host Zeke. In this episode, I have Alex to speak about his journey, in the creative field. I like to give a content warning for any strong language used in this episode. I hope you have a nice day and enjoy the show. One other thank you for joining the podcast.

Alex Little: Thanks for having me. It’s good to be here.

Zeke: So the first question I’d like to ask is what would your origin story be and how would you like it to be represented?

Alex Little: Can you say that question

Zeke: What would your origin story be and represented?

Alex Little: Sorry, I can’t. Sorry, the connections back to that again.

Zeke: What was your origin story be how you’d like to represent it?

Alex Little: Origin story?

Zeke: Yeah. Yeah.

Alex Little: That’s cool. I like it. It’s like a model question. Yeah. Well, first of all, apologies for the background. We’re painting the house at the moment. So kind of patchy. But the origin story, so do I get to make one up?

Zeke: It could be made up it could be real.

Alex Little: Well, I want to make it up. Because when more interesting than the real thing. origin story is, I was walking to school one day, and there was this truck of black toxic liquid. And then this track kind of turned this corner to sharply covered me in toxic liquid. And didn’t give me any superpowers. It just made me um, slightly poor vision. And that’s why I wear glasses today. That’s my origin story.

Zeke: And how is that going represented? Like a book comic? movie?

Alex Little: Um, I don’t know if anyone would watch that movie. It probably needs to be shorter, like maybe a tweet. Yeah, something short and sweet.

Zeke: And that, so you’re in the creative field? Yeah. Yeah. You’re in a creative field. So how did you? Like? How did that start? What brought you there?

Alex Little: Um, it’s a good question. I am. Back in high school. I used to love doing graphic design. And my mom was the creative. She’s an artists that are always doing drawings and kind of paintings at home. And she was super encouraging of that. And so I was doing graphic design at school when I was really enjoying it. And I remember doing one particular assignment and a teacher came around and looked at a lot different progress. And then how we were performing, you should look at this one designer was doing when she said, Oh, that kind of looks more like advertising. Like you have a headline and a point of view. And you’re trying to change someone’s attitude, and has a tone of voice. And I’ve never even considered advertising before, I hadn’t really thought of that as a career. But as soon as you said that it kind of planted a seed in my head. And I looked into it. And yeah, it seemed like a super interesting, kind of create kind of a really unexpected road to take. And you get to, you get to be creative for a living. And so I looked at it, and I found a university. That’s what we call them in America, Australia University. I found a university that offered an advertising costs. And I tried to get in but didn’t get in. And so I went traveling instead. And I went traveling for two years through Europe, and I moved to London. And I kind of wanted to figure out, you know, after after two years, do I still want to do advertising or was it just kind of a phase. But after two years, I still really want to do it. So I tried to get into the university again, and I didn’t get it again. So I started applying for this portfolio course called the one school in Australia award schools are really popular portfolio course that happens in every city in the country. And basically, it lasts for three months. And it’s super intensive. And you work with people who already work in advertising to, to work on how to come up with ideas, and you build a book of ideas. So applied to get into that, but I didn’t get that either. So I’ve got this kind of history of applying to things and not getting in. But I’m pretty persistent. And I’m pretty good at like looking at how I failed and trying to get better than next time. So next time I applied I called a friend who was in advertising and I think I got a little bit closer. And then the third time I was working in a beverage joint in Melbourne, Australia, and the head like the guy who runs the whole course what school came in, and I said oh, you run this course. You guys yeah. And I’m like, Oh, I would have been trying to get in like two years. And it’s like, well come over to my agency. Have a look at your ideas. And we’ll see if we can see if we can, you know, improve the chances This time and so went over to his place his agency looked at the ideas and applied for third time finally got it. And it was an awesome course I had amazing tutors who were super super really just really welcoming and kind and generous with their time and helped me be a bit creative. And then this award school and advertising I don’t know if he knows he he’ll but you pair up with like it. As a team. There’s like an art director and a copywriter. So not directed in terms of the craft usually takes care of everything visual, whether it be layout, photography, whether it be film, whether it be learn how to design, whether it be logos, everything visually related, and copywriters look at everything in the written word, whether it be headlines, scripts, taglines, things like that, you come together at the start of the creative process, you come up with an idea, and then you help craft it together. So I’ve paired up with a friend from this course. And we got a job together. And that kind of started my um career in advertising.

Zeke: So many lessons in that about perseverance, he does not keep retrying. but to also retool, and see how you can improve and then just take another path. So what’s that? How did you stay motivated at is like, two times you like, Okay, I got rejected. I kept, like, what made you keep trying?

Alex Little: Um, that’s a good question. I think I’ve always been pretty resilient. I remember around, I was in a very fast runner at school, but we would play tag. And I would just run up to people, like, for a long, long time, I don’t know how it wasn’t that long, big a kid, I would just wear people down, I would just keep coming up to them. And eventually that stuff, and I’ll be able to tag them. I would run away. But um, I think with this advertising thing, I think I knew in myself that one I really wanted to do it. And two, I knew I was I knew I had something to offer. It was just a just a challenge of presenting it in the right way. And I think that takes time. And I think it just takes reflection as well. There’s no point doing something the same again. And again, if you don’t stop and reflect how you can improve. So think it’s a mixture of think trust in my own kind of talent, and then being able to reflect and grow and get better. Have you have you had similar experiences where you’ve had to persevere?

Zeke: Yeah, right now, for me right now, just like in a job and everything, those rejections and then I’ll say like, who’s like college? Those back in college when they may go like, because most of so I like to tell a lot of how it’s coming down to my major. And that’s like, I was doing my midterm I had, like, okay, what’s the next? So it’s like, Okay, this won’t happen right now. To see what was my best player?

Alex Little: Yeah, yeah, it’s tricky. It’s just, I think it’s just good to stop and reflect. And yeah, what’s it? What’s a different pathway? Like you said, there’s different pathways, the same goal, and everyone’s pathway is different. So, yeah.

Zeke: And also your story, you’re talking about how, like, he just was able to meet the director of the entire course. And that was like a chance. And you just like, it’s just,

Alex Little: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. It’s, I mean, it’s a bit of a cliche, but they say it’s, it’s through, you know, not what you know, but I don’t know if that’s entirely true. You got to you got to know some stuff. But, um, I think it’s just the lesson and take your shots when you’ve got them. And if, if someone standing in front of you is a gatekeeper to where you want to get to, then to start a conversation, like I’m not the most smoothest talker. I’m not like a like a, you know, like a mover and shaker or anything, but I think just have a conversation. Anyone can start a conversation and start talking and all I had to say was I really want to get into your course. Can you help me? And also, what do you want to know (inaudible)? Were the kind of three questions and then most people are good enough to offer their time if you seem like a normal person. Yeah, they’ll be I could help.

Zeke: Yeah, a lot of times people say you, miss 100%, the shots you don’t take.

Alex Little: Yeah

Zeke: And you have to practice to perform a coming from a  Business School always have the practice of elevator pitch. Like who you are. And what you want to do.

Alex Little: Yeah. What’s your elevator pitch?

Zeke: Depends on the situation. Usually, I would say my name is Ezekiel  Williams. If I’m talking more like graphic design. Zeke:, recent graduate from Baruch College digital marketing major. And a minor in new media arts. I currently run my own  podcasts the Let’s Gather Podcast. Which we speak about anime and different topics. And also do graphic designer make logos and flyers, animations.

Alex Little: Cool, nice. It’s pretty good, pretty tight.

Zeke: And then when I do the talking about mentoring, I say, the same beginning to twist up and talk about how I was mentoring for my sophomore year. And then I’ve been like, different jobs and stuff like that.

Alex Little: Cool. So

Zeke: Thanks. And so in the beginning, your mother was really instrumental in bring pushing you towards that, towards advertisement. So it was without that which you had like a idea which you want to do, or that was just like, aha moment?

Alex Little: I think it would have been, I think it would have been, Yeah, super different pathway. Not necessarily a bad pathway, but just different. Yeah, mom was mum was growing up super supportive of, I’ve got two sisters and a brother. you’re encouraged as older kind of, to do, and also read books and kind of just kind of digest creative, creative things. I’ve, you know, those um paint by numbers, kids drawings. She banned them from the house, she said kids shouldn’t be forced to paint in boxes by numbers, like you get to choose, you know, where the colors go and what your picture looks like. Which I always remembered, because I think it’s such a good lesson for creativity in general. You need to you need to color outside the lines to do cool, interesting things.

Zeke: Yeah, I think I have that problem. Sometimes where I get to my head, I get to back into what to do, like, a job, I forgot how to create something I get to box into like, well, I already know how to do that. Forget to be creative. And think about, like, all kinds of represent the same information a different way.

Alex Little: Yeah. I mean, it’s it’s a challenge, every creative as but, um, it’s just practice. I mean, you can, I mean, the thing that helps me through the process, and I think this could help you as well. Like, if you have a task, like a friend wants a poster designed or, or an album cover or something, like just do it the obvious like that, get it out of your head out of your system, then you can move on. And you have like a bar that you’ve set. It’s like, okay, that’s, that’s the best. That’s the first thing I thought. What’s next? Because often, you first thought isn’t the best one. But if you get it out of your head and onto paper, it helps to push past it into more interesting territories that people haven’t thought of.

Zeke: Yeah. And then you also like a copy yourself. Sometimes they used to say, I had you on the we created something new, like I didn’t do this before. You said that again? You haven’t like he’s copying yourself when you creating something? Or like dissent. Mmm. LMS. Same team.

Alex Little: He’s saying so it’s breaking up a little bit, you saying? Does it ever feel like I’m making the same work that I’ve already made? Yeah. Um, that’s a really good question. That’s a great question. Um, yeah, I think I think everyone has a comfort sign and a tone of voice that then naturally drawn to it. So yeah, and it’s a really good question. Yeah, I think I think it does happen, I think, I think you do, I think it is, it is definitely a thing, we create a body of work that has a similar thread to it. Whether it’s, you know, an emotional insight or certain look to it, or set a tone of voice to it, I think that’s super common. But I think it’s, it’s really important, it’s fine if that happens, but I think it’s important to be aware of aware that it’s happening. So you can either choose to continue down that path, or take a left turn or a right turn, because you don’t want a whole book of exact same stuff. And you want to, you want to push yourself and, and, you know, explore different solutions to different problems. So I think the key is being aware of your comfort zone, and knowing when to push out of it. And by how far. And the cool thing about advertising is, you’re kind of forced to, you’re working for so many different brands and clients who have different customers and different ways of speaking to them. So they often set you on a pretty different path from the beginning. Like you wouldn’t talk to a 16 year old high school kid, he wants to buy Nike shoe. In the same way you talk to, you know, a 45 year old mom is looking for a new fun. That is two very different ways of talking to customers. And yeah, that’s that’s the exciting part get to mix up your communication stuff.

Zeke: Yeah, because the end of the day, everybody receives information differently and you have to presented in the way they speak.

Alex Little: Oh, I think I lost.

Zeke: Sometimes I felt like I’m using the same and again, serving as the same that everybody received permission definitely did. Give it to them the way that they speak. And then going on to like how sometimes I feel like, I can see elements? Like this is a this was before is like, I know, I can’t think of anything. So we’ll see what before.

Alex Little: Sorry, I’m only getting a second one

Zeke: Other thing like I usually just go into like was like you said the comfort zone. They weren’t working for the (inaudible) and then take that element again. This has the same sometimes.

Alex Little: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think is what you’re saying. Like you take an element of your comfort zone, and then push past that.

Zeke: I was saying that was, like, contained from the other point of copying yourself? Yeah, yeah.

Alex Little: Yeah, for sure.

Zeke: And then, let’s be like, today, right? generation, definitely we can do project How do you decide how to all die this? Is it? Like, how do you know that you’re accurately targeting the right market?

Alex Little: Um, well, we have a lot of people that work with us. We’ve got a really talented strategic team, who look at the types of people we should be speaking to, and what and how they live their lives and what they interest and hobbies are. Because the more you know about people you speaking to the better you can speak to them. You can relate to them know, you know, what struggles they have, you know, what they get excited by, you know what they’re passionate about. So that really helps them we have an account team at work, who work with the client really closely and help figure out what the client wants to say and how they want to position their product. So there’s a few things that kind of happen down the pipeline. It’s like, okay, who we talking to? How do we want to talk to them? And then what and then and then when it gets to us, it’s like what is it What does that? What does that look like when it comes to life? The how, how do we? How do we talk to them? How does that literally? Look? How does that literally sound?

Zeke: Cool? And where do they go? Well, you came from Australia, it was like a big difference in like the advertising, adjust to when you got to the states?

Alex Little: Um, yeah, it was been everything is bigger in America, not just Texas. So like we were, we were pretty blown away by the size of the agency, we’d come from an agency of about 100 people. And this was like 700. So that was interesting. And starting at the bottom again, like no one knows who you are now knows if you’re good at your job. So I think it was just for us figuring out how we, how we stand out and an agency that big. So that was, that was the biggest challenge. But it was interesting, like, the creative process isn’t too dissimilar. from our experience, you still have a break problem you have, and then you have smart people who help figure it out. And figure out the best way to make ads. Like it’s, if you break it down into that kind of simple stuff, stop net this the problem and the solution to everything else isn’t as important besides the agency, people’s accents, people’s the culture of meetings and, and corporate culture, it’s all kind of periphery, the most important thing is, what’s the problem? And how are we going to solve it?

Zeke: If the structure, the structure is still there, the skeleton marketing?

Alex Little: Yeah, totally. And it hasn’t, it hasn’t changed too much, which is interesting, over over the different generations. The output changes, like, you know, in the, in the 50s, and 60s, it was, you know, either, you know, a newspaper ad or an outdoor billboard, or TV ad, they were already on, there was a kind of four, four options you had. And now it’s like, limitless like this new, there’s new ways every day, as you know, like, you know, whether it’s, you know, something online, or a different way of doing a TV ad, or like a video game where you create a product or, like, it’s, it’s cool, it’s a good time to be an industry show.

Zeke: And like, with all these changes, you have spose to constantly, how to keep up? Like, how do you keep up with all the changes?

Alex Little: Um, I think it’s, I think it’s just, you have to be passionate about culture and what’s happening and have a super diverse range of interests. There’s no point staying in your kind of bubble, watching just your Netflix shows, talking to your friends, reading your news, because you’re going to end up kind of with a really limited perspective of the world. So I think it’s I think the biggest challenge for creatives is to push themselves out of their comfort zone. And try to try to absorb what other people are absorbing, you know, go to blog to would normally go to go to walk into stores that you don’t normally go to like if you’re your boyfriend or girlfriend’s going shopping for clothes that you wouldn’t let go with them. See what that experience is like it you know, go to a monster truck rally. You don’t have to be in the monster trucks just see what it’s like. And you might see something cool that inspires an ad like two years later. If you don’t like sport, make sure you watch sport. It’s such an important part of culture. Watch the basketball game watching football games. You know, watch a fashion show. Watch a dog, sir. Just try to absorb as much as you can, because you don’t know where it will come in handy. down the path.

Zeke: Yeah, I think people need to do more than just trying new things. And just seeing what they do have no idea why not. And more than that, Before the changes, and like a lot of ideas are already been done, how do you? How do you keep bringing creative new ideas? With? Like, if like everything had been done?

Alex Little: Um, that’s a cool question. I think there was a documentary called everything is a remix. You should look that up. It’s, it’s a cool document, it’s just um, it’s just it gives you peace of mind that there’s always a different way of doing something. And it’s, it’s basically arguing that every idea is, is a remix of a different idea that’s already come before. So even back like caveman days, like, someone started fire with some rocks and some sticks. And then some other guy so that I decided to put fire on a stick so they can carry it. Someone saw that and making I don’t I’m not very good at history, but someone slipped and decided to create, you know, atlantan and then someone saw that decide to make electricity. And it’s just, I think it’s just evolving. It’s probably a more compelling way to think about coming up with a brand new idea. It’s like, how do we evolve something in the most dramatic way possible, where the original source is unrecognizable. I think that’s, that’s the key. That’s what that’s what makes an idea feel fresh, is when you can’t recognize where the inspiration came from. Even though there was 100% something that inspired that artist, or creator. I mean, it can’t know if that person is living and breathing every day, being inspired by different things around them. That’s when an idea was fresh if the evolved it far enough for the thing that inspired them to be unrecognizable. And sometimes music comes along like that. It’s like holy shit you know, that doesn’t sound like anything that’s come before obviously that musician has their inspirations but they’ve pushed it so far that it’s impossible to know who they’re inspired by.

Zeke: Yeah, is it here that he had a solid been here the sample that came from this is like do you may be able to make an election but if you learn them separately, you probably wouldn’t have made that connection.

Alex Little: Yeah. Hundred percent.

Zeke: And also watch ar podcast and talk about how there’s only like seven stories of a journey story we veins and stuff like that. How to handle? How handle it and all that you got it? Like a pretty much the same story.

Alex Little: Yeah, that’s interesting. Yeah, it’s seven stories like it doesn’t seem like a lot. I’ve seen a lot of movies. And it’s crazy to think that they will follow seven structures.

Zeke: Yeah, I forgot I can’t get into all the stories from the top of my head but yeah. And then even show like animation animation that was similar to that it was just like, they had this set structure. And granted, you can you can see the patterns happening over and over again. Okay, cool. This is what this is their type of story. Totally. So I think Marvel was having the same problem to where people was like, okay, you can hit the you can see the beat coming in.

Alex Little: Yeah, Mom will have a problem to show. It’s the same it’s so much of the same the origin story especially they get the powers they find a bad guy that don’t want to fight the bad guy. Then they get inspired to fight the bad guy and then we bow mean they’re starting to do more interesting things like Logan was super cool Deadpool typical I think the Thor movies are awesome. I love that director is in New Zealand New Zealand.

Zeke: I don’t know. I can’t think of the name of my head. I know you talking about Yeah.

Alex Little: Yeah, so yeah, it’ll be interesting to see what that guy’s that whole franchise

Zeke: Because in Iron the first one and then Antman The first one was pretty much the same story of super power guy was like super power guy in a red suit to fight a bald guy who was pretty much the antithesis, he just pretty much the same as him. In a different suit over the over the control of a company. Yeah. This Yeah.

Alex Little: Yeah, they need to um, I don’t know, I get sick of them. I’ve still kind of stopped watching the Marvel movies. There’s more interesting stuff out there. I don’t know if you’re watching the Boys on Amazon.

Zeke: Not yet. You had heard of it? Yeah.

Alex Little: It’s It’s pretty cool. Like it’s doesn’t follow the formula. That’s the show. It’s kind of the opposite of what you think of superheroes.

Zeke: What might what happened if they were real?

Alex Little: Yeah, what happens? They’re real and acted like, really douchey celebrities. So they’re super corrupt and kind of cruel to each other. And yeah, it’s, it’s cool. It’s interesting.

Zeke: Writing. So go back all the way back to the beginning. What first got you into graphic design? First?

Alex Little: What was that?

Zeke: What first got you into graphic design like you just started making?

Alex Little: It just seemed like an obvious choice. I think I liked them. I like drawing up some of that graphic design, I think it was just a cool combination of technology and design. Like I like tech, like computers, and graphics. It’s felt like a cool merging of the two. But yeah, I’m a I’m a copywriter. Now, I didn’t actually go down the design path. At a certain point, I realized I was a stronger writer than a designer. And that was super early on. I think it was like 21 or something. And so from then on, I’ve been a writer. So yeah, interesting path.

Zeke: So, creative is just a form of expression.

Alex Little: Yeah, yeah, definitely. It’s still still coming up with ideas. It’s just a different way you execute them?

Zeke: It’s good that you have a you have like both sides. So you can we training meaning creating to see how it will look towards like all our other activities. Okay, this is like the bonus is like it’s good to have like both you have like both like creative and like copywriting to then you can we creating and creating the ideas, you can see how it look.

Alex Little: Yeah, art director and copywriter. It’s it’s a cool combination. I didn’t used to be like that. I think, you know, back in the 60s, they used to work very separately. And then there was one particular agency called DDB that rolling together instead that way ever since.

Zeke: Nice. And you found your partner at the university, right?

Alex Little: Um, it was

Zeke: The point

Alex Little: Yeah, my first thought was in that portfolio course. And then we work together for a few years, and we made some great work. And then I moved to a different agency and work with a different partner. And then I moved to a different agency and I work with my current partner now we’ve been together, I think, five, five or six years. So yeah, that’s that’s coming to you can you can change partners, you can stay with your partner. I mean, it’s a tricky thing to find the right creative person that you can work with the you know 10 hours a day every day with, like horizon ship. So it’s a it’s important, it’s important to find a way to find a good one.

Zeke: And I think is more like personality and didn’t do workflow both match. Anything like that,

Alex Little: Yeah, totally. I think the most important thing when you’re starting out is finding someone with the same ambition wants to be as good as you did. And achieve, you know, achieve things that that feel begun and kind of a little bit scary. Because even if you’re not both talented, then you’re probably both not when you start out. No one knows much when they say Stop any job. As long as you have the same ambition, or same angle, then you can grow and get better together. So I think that’s the most important thing. Find someone with the same ambition.

Zeke: Ambition. Yeah. Any tips and advice and tips and advice, tips and advice. Oh,

Alex Little: Good question. Um, I think, I think I think I think it’s just about I think is my I think my biggest one of my biggest traits is resilience and positivity. When you asked me before, is EQ, like, How do you stay resilient? I think part of it is like, confidence in yourself and reflection on where you went wrong and Hagia birth. But I think it’s just is a total Another cool thing to check out. If I already shared it with you that do you know, the podcast This American Life? No, it’s a, it’s an awesome podcast, definitely worth checking out and just do great stories about everything in America. And like I was saying before, you know, widen your perspective of the world, that’s a great place to start, because they look at so many different facets of, of the world, and so many interesting stories and people, but the guy who runs that podcast, This American Life, there’s a guy called Ira Glass. And he’s got a great YouTube clip that goes for about five minutes, not very long. So it’s definitely worth listening to anyone who’s creative and felt, you know, has doubted their work, or doubted that talent, or, you know, just think like, every creative questions, whether this is the right path for them. Or look at other people’s work and say, you know, why? Why kind of do that? Why is good. So this podcast talks about something called text. And, and the taste gap between where you currently are, and what you think is, is good. So for example, music you like, if you look, I don’t know what design is, and what kind of design inspires you. But for example, if you would look like at an awesome Nike ad, for the brand new shirt, and be like, Damn, that’s cool. And you might be able to make that design now, or you might not. And if you’re in the latter camp, if you can’t make it, as long as you have the taste to recognize, that’s good design. And you have the ambition to figure out how to make that design, then you become a better designer. So it’s just about it’s just a really, really short video that says, if you have good taste, hang on to that test, and just find a way to get your skill up to that point. That makes sense.

Zeke: Yeah. They work towards your inspiration.

Alex Little: Yeah, hundred percent. So I mean, the first step is having those those goals that you’re working towards, and the next step is finding how to get there.

Zeke: And that can be any path.

Alex Little: Yeah, mainly, that thing could be courses, it can be teaching yourself, it can be speaking to other designers. Yeah.

Zeke: And we almost time. So one of the one more question before the last question I’ve ever seen in design and the design, because then we just say, you just like you’ve been inspired by it. You know, like, it wasn’t like what you wish you would have done that?

Alex Little: Oh, yeah. All the time. All the time. I’m trying to think of one. There was it didn’t make the difference didn’t make the final Tokyo Olympics logo. But there was a logo that was floating around and it’s still floating around. If you look at Tokyo Olympics logo, you’ll see it. But it was such a perfect logo. for Japan and for 2020. Have you seen it?

Zeke: Yeah.

Alex Little: Yeah, it’s sick. They should have used that one. I mean, obviously, it would have been a waste now because it’s going to be 2021 but Love that just like such a simple soul. And I think the good idea seems so obvious and you kind of kick yourself and go, why didn’t I think of that? So yeah, I really like them.

Zeke: Right? So it makes sense.

Alex Little: Yeah, for sure.

Zeke: So, time running out the last question, I like to ask is, what would you name your origin story?

Alex Little: Name my origin story?

Zeke: Yeah.

Alex Little: Um, who maybe like some origin story, just recapping it’s toxic waste falls on me. And I lose my vision. So I think I would call it um Oh, oh oh. The tough one. Four eyes

Zeke: Four eyes.

Alex Little: Yeah.

Zeke: Nice. Well, thank you for being a guest.

Alex Little: Cool. Love that. This is really fun. Thanks. It’s a really good questions.

Zeke: Thank you off the top of the head.

Alex Little: In love, are you reacting in the moment to what I was saying? That’s pretty cool.

Zeke: Yeah, try get better at that. That brings another episode or the Let’s Gather Podcast to a close. I like to thank Alex for being a guest on the podcast. For next week and my friend Nate to speak about college, music and podcasting. I hope continue to have a nice day and I hope to see you there.

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