A Black Man in the United States

Quinn jones: You know, I feel like, like both, like being a bully or being bullied is a pretty common experience for a lot of black people. Like, I feel like a lot of people I’ve talked to have experienced it or dealt it to some capacity. And maybe that’s true for every every race of people, you know, I wouldn’t know because I you know, I didn’t grow up all black community. So you know, I didn’t really even know white people

 [Music]

Zeke: I like welcome, everyone to another episode of the Let’s Gather Podcast, I’m your host Zeke. In this episode, I have my friends Darius and Quinn Jones to speak about being black in the United States. I I like to give a content warning for any strong language used in this episode. I hope you have a nice day and enjoy the show. I like to welcome you guys, for coming on the podcast.

Darius Jones: Hello, hello.

Quinn jones: Thanks for having us

Zeke: Alright, cool. So the first question I always like the ask is, what would your origin story be and how would you represent it? Anyone can go first.

Darius Jones: Man seems like a bit of a bit of a tough one. But I guess my origin story is, is that, um, well, I guess what I was born in, it’s where I want to say I was born and raised in Harlem. But that’s kind of not completely the truth. I was born in Harlem 1993. But we’ve only lived I only lived there till I was five, then we, um, we moved into the shelter me my family. And for a couple years, we were bounced around the shelters. We lived basically in a new apartment every year. Um, so early on, it wasn’t very easy to make friends, especially at school, because you kind of knew you had a different class a different set of people who you had to introduce yourself to every year. First, second, third and fourth grade, completely different class from the last. Um, I’ve lived basically every year it was like a new borrow to from first grade, it was Manhattan. Note, you know, I’m sorry, it was Manhattan, and then we lived in the Bronx. And well, I guess we came back to Manhattan, so Never mind. But it was I felt like it was always hard to make friends. Um, I feel like I’ve tried hard to be friends to make friends to get everyone. Um, to like me, and I feel like that kind of plays a role into my personality. Hi, I’m now I’m, I’m someone who’s like, super friendly. Super trusting. Um, I try to see, I guess, the positive side of things, the good and everyone. Um, and it has bitten me in the bud a couple times. Um, you know, trusting the wrong people, or having your faith in the wrong thing. But um, a childhood wasn’t as easy it was. It’s something that I’ve been thinking about lately. Bad child. My childhood, I’ve kind of always analyzed it to the worst of everything. Like oh, I feel like we weren’t the most well off when we were young. But I’ve always felt there was always someone worse, or we couldn’t really hang out. We’ve I’ve always had to announce where I was going. When I was going. What time I was going to be home if it was too late. And it was a big fat No. And I always have to call um before I come home, and when I’m coming home. And and I was always chalked it up to and I’ve always chalked it up to Oh, you know people got it worse. I’ve known friends who just can’t hang out at all. But I will always say that we did go through a difficult I went through not the easiest childhood but um, I think that just plays more into the whole see the best outlook mentality that I tend to have. Or I try to show when I talk to or communicate with people.

Quinn jones: You know, what’s interesting about that is like, people always ask, like, how is one person I’m, like, so different from another even though your brothers or your sisters, um, and the truth is that it’s because like people see stuff from different perspectives, and you don’t get to experience everything that abroad, a system, my experience. So like, for example, Nereus talks about you know, the struggles that we had as children well perspective as like a For you, um, it’s very, from like, derrius, or like my older brothers perception of the time, because I’m a kid, you know. And pretty much I feel like my origin. Like, since I was a kid, like, I had a lot of people supporting me, like, I had both my grandmother’s, you know, I have my pops. I had my mother, which is a lot because like growing up, most of the people who I knew, didn’t know their father. So like, even in middle school, like, one of my friends told me, they were spending a weekend with a father. And I was just like, what

Darius Jones: I was, those exist,

Quinn jones: Yeah, you know, this in the community, like, to have that support of having my father around, and, you know, constantly telling me, um, you know, I could do whatever I want, or anything I put my mind to, I can do. And then also have a my mother in my corner, who also told me all the time, you got to go to college, you got to do this, you got to make sure that you always have yourself set. So I felt like when I was growing up, that path was already paid for me, because I have three older brothers. So like, everything that they did, I’m taking little bits of everything that they do, because it’s like, Okay, let me you know, go to college, make sure that I got all my financial aid in order, you know, make sure that I’m doing everything I got to do. And to be told when I talk about support system, Darius was also a big support system for me when I was in college, because like, those financial aid checks, like, you know, when you 19 that 2000 hit like something different. But the one thing that I will say is like, um, when you have like a significant other or something, you know, you spend more money because you want to go out, you want to do things, as opposed to when you like, single, you just chillin planning to guess and all day knowing manifests like, like, by the end of the semester, I mean, I’m talking dollar pizza, you know, that, you know, Zeke until good dollar pizza at the end of the semester. Um, and so, you know, various will always be like, I will be like, Yo, I need like, $300 to him, but I, I see, so, you know, having all those support systems, I think that’s what allowed me to be like, as successful as I am with things that I’ve tried to do. Like, I feel like there’s nothing in my life right now that I’ve tried to do that. I felt like I didn’t, that I felt that. And I think part of that is just having a well rounded support system. So I would say that that’s like, my origin is like just having a support system and using that support system to the best of my abilities, and just trying to do me at the end of the day.

Zeke: Powerful Thank you, bro. And with that, how would you like if you guys think of stories, write a book, or a movie or a video game?

Quinn jones: Like you say, how would we represent ourselves?

Zeke: Yeah. What medium would you choose?

Darius Jones: I would choose a book definitely. Because I feel like a movie, would it be able to encapsulate everything that went on? I feel like there’s a lot of defining moments. Um, I feel like there’s a lot of defining moments in your not just your childhood, but in your life. That happens. And I feel like a movie that was like a two hour two hour movie, would it be able to encapsulate everything that kind of mold you into the person? You are? Um, that’s probably why I feel like you actually don’t see a lot of movies made about like people’s memoirs and such, only, like the really, really popular people you’ll see. Like a movies being made. Because I feel like there’s just a lot of things that I’ve gone through that I wouldn’t be able to, um, I wouldn’t be able to describe in a movie like going through school. I was I was bullied basically, almost my entire almost my entire school life. I mean, not in my entire school life, but the probably like 75% of my school life. Um, between Yeah, yeah. From Hmm,

Quinn jones: Even in high school as well?

Darius Jones: The first year of high school. So half half of elementary school, fourth and fifth grade when we went to school in Harlem. Um, um, Middle School, an entirely middle school and the first year of high school. Um, but that’s kind of because truth be told, I’m the probably one of the main causes of, of me getting bullied by other kids, I would say the leaders quote unquote, I’m one of them went to my middle school, and then the other one to like my, my high school for my freshman year. And then I transferred schools again. And then finally, second highest school I know, only one person from like, my previous schools, and he was he wasn’t really mess with me. So, um, because yeah, and fourth, and fifth, I had some prime bullies. And then some of them went to my middle school. And then one of them went to my high school. And, and then not only not only do I would like to go into details about the bullying, as well like to go into the details of like, the effect that it had on me. Um, I would say, there is a long time where I just I did not like to Color My Skin. And I will be honest about that. Um, my grandmother would have to console me, you know, why am I so dark? Why am I so black? Why do all the other kids call me African booty scratcher? I’m, like, I’m just as dark as I’m darker than gnome. A, you know, my grandmother would have to tell me Oh, black is beautiful this than the third. Um, and it feel like, for a long time, I’ve alienated myself from like, my own community because of opinions that I had just being bullied by black students for being darker than them. I mean, that wasn’t the only reason. But it was. It wasn’t the only reason why the bullying was happening. But it was the one that I focused on the most. And not only that, the anxiety going through schools, I’m changing from year to year. Like I said, just not Sunday, I think we’ll be able to encapsulate in just a movie, like you’ll be able to see like maybe a key moment here and a key moment there. But I just feel like there’s too much details. So a book is for sure.

Quinn jones: You know, what’s interesting about that, are you talking about bullying. Thinking about how, and I had this discussion briefly with my students, of course, not in depth, because, you know, my students only agree. Um, but I was talking about how, and I was also bullied in elementary school, not in middle school, or high school or anything like that. But um, you know, I feel like, like both, like being a bully or being bullied is a pretty common experience for a lot of black people. Like, I feel like a lot of people I’ve talked to have experienced it or dealt it to some capacity. And maybe that’s true for every every race of people, you know, I wouldn’t know because I you know, I didn’t grow up all black community. So you know, I didn’t really even know white people until I got when I got to Baruch is not like, I was talking to many white people because you know, isn’t seat so, um, you know, that experience is so interesting, because I don’t feel like like black people. Sometimes when we talk about like, alien it, like you mentioned to Darius how, like, you know, you get bullied and then sometimes you like to alienate from your own like, community, right? But what I wanted to ask y’all, and you guys, you have to share that opinion on this. Do you think um, like in other communities, do you think people see bullying? and think like, like, for example, do you think that a white person being bullied by another white person would think, oh, I don’t want to associate with white people? Or do you think that that’s like a black thing?

Darius Jones: I mean, okay, so me personally, I just I don’t ever hear a white person being bullied for being too white. I just don’t think it’s weird. That’s usually sign that’s like, um, I feel like that’s sign that’s usually it’s the lighter You are the arm, okay? Not the way to do it because there’s a lot of people who who try 10 themselves just to reach this complexity, okay? Um, but I just feel like it’s not something that’s, that’s, that’s not, um, demonized, like, you know, you’ll never go, oh my god, you’re too white. Or even if they are saying, Oh, you know, you’re white, you’re, you know, your white house rice. Um, it’s not it’s not something they like, alienated. I feel like it’s sun that they don’t alienate themselves, um, from each other about, you know what I mean? Yeah, because I feel like in society, you know, um, well, you know, we live in America, um, you know, the majority of people are white. So, they are going to, I feel like, they are going to have a big influence, or, like, you know, life is beautiful. Um, and I just feel like a lot of people, by contrast, um, is going to say, like, you know, the darker You are the, not, not, not per se said, the darker You are the least attractive you are, but, um, it’s not as it’s not. It’s not as desired by like, you know, the caramel complexion. Um, you’ll see you’ll see it a lot, a lot of songs, you’ll see, you know, they’ll talk about like skin that gets darker skin niggas this and that. I’m not even just songs you’ll see. Throughout history, you’ll see by both sides that I’m like skin, black people were shown a preference

Quinn jones: As well. Oh, my fault Darius I didn’t mean,

Darius Jones: Yeah, so so I think it’s just something that, like, I think just white people don’t really go through, like, they’ll you’ll never see like a subset of like, you know, there’s no like whiter skin stick or white skins versus whiter skins. Um, I just feel like throughout history, there has been a there has been a focus on light skin. You know, even in past you know, like skin. Black people have gotten more attention from white people and dark skin. So it is, this is a lot of range of emotions there. But it’s just something that I feel like, like I said, why people don’t go through because it’s not something that’s perpetuated in their, in their societies.

Quinn jones: The funny thing about that is I feel like when you talk about like desirability, I feel like in media, um, a lot of times, like as, like, um, black men are teased for being darker. But I think in terms of like desirability on TV and media, usually it’s darker skinned males, but lighter skinned woman. I mean, do you? Do you share that belief, like, I feel like the, the desire in the media is to have dark skinned men and light skinned woman, and that translates to even what you see in music? What you said like that, you know, even when little Wayne said he needed a red bone. Like, like brown dog, like. So it’s just, you know, I feel like a lot of times, like, well, like, you know, rap is the music that a lot of us here in our households. You know, it’s just music by us. So, you know, of course, a lot of us are gonna listen to it. Um, and like, a lot of kids carry that into the classroom. Even in my classroom, like I even see it like some students have come up to me. I remember I was talking with a student last year, he was like, Nah, Mr. Jones, black, just like me. Same color. Like, they gave me a spinach, Mommy, you know? Ah, and, you know, I tried to at the moment, I tried to challenge that I’m like, okay, so why you why you specifically going after a Spanish girl. And you know, he couldn’t even rationalize in his own mind why. And so I was thinking, like, maybe is the media influences just, you know, driving what we like, and that happens all over. Like they got ads to make you like stuff. Like think about like Apple. Apple does this all the time with their products? Yeah, there’s a new iPhone 12 and it probably doesn’t do anything different from the 11. But it’s new. You want it right. Um, and so the same way how they do advertising. I feel like just the videos that we look at as kids are ingrained in our minds and so that’s where that mentality to bully people based on skin color. I feel like come From just knowing that the standard of beauty is not blackness, the standard of beauty is like whiteness. And, you know, seeing how close you can get to that. For so long, it hasn’t even, you know, now we have a push towards people accepting their own hair.

Darius Jones: Exactly, that they’ve actually, I think they just made it illegal to discriminate against some black woman’s hair. Just recently, it was, it was like this year, right? It was like this whole last year was like, not it’s like a combination of discrimination. Oh, what’s considered professional here?

Quinn jones: Exactly. Think about that. Christ died 2001 years ago. And here we are still asking people to accept our damn hands are easy to like, Okay, finally, your hair is acceptable in the workplace. Like, come on. Is this ridiculous at this point? Um, to answer your question earlier, though, Zeke, I’m sorry. But, uh, I just straight off completely. Like, it would be dope to have like a video game. Like, I feel like, you could have like one of those video games where like, as I’m growing up, I’m leveling up. And I’m getting new skills from other people as I’m going through it. Like, you know, going to school, getting new skills, meeting people getting new skills. Um, and I feel like that would be a cool way to depict like, growing up. And like Harlem, because you know, you, even from Me, me and my brother growing up, we literally saw an experience how fast and how much the neighborhood changed. It was like, boom, like one. Like, at one moment, it was like, Okay, everybody on the block, we have barbecues, you hanging out in your court, y’all you hanging out, you know, everybody on the block, and then like five years down the line, boom. Y’all know, nobody. There’s a lot of people you don’t know, a neighborhood. And now they looking at you crazy for being there. So it’s like, that will be a dope video game. Like, it’ll be like, Yo, whap and, like the whole setting changes. It’s like, I’m Welcome to so Hi. No longer Harlem. Um, so yeah, I will go with a video game. I think that’s pretty dope.

Zeke: 

Nice, nice this topic went different places. I guess continue with the topic at hand. I think it’s definitely a media thing. Where if you train people to look at things a certain way, then they go on to design yet. And also, like, if you can get the oppresses to oppresses themselves and, pushes out then you can easily be chosen because they can’t pretty much unite. They focus on all the differences. And think with like, why people were selected media? Is that a mostly classism thing we believe and also, like, I guess culture because they go for the history class how like Italians were considered white for a long time. And now they’re trying to make Asian students we all classify white in follow like schools school stuff,

Quinn jones: Hmm. Yeah. Yeah, that’s the crazy thing about America. It’s like, America, like over time has been like the journey of other groups of ethnic groups of people being accepted into whiteness. Black people exist as like that. Other people on that spectrum. So it’s like crazy working from being like them to you know, finally being accepted into whiteness. And so black people just don’t get that opportunity. Unless Unless you’re kind of white passing. Then you have a whole other can of worms that you’re you know, you may be able to deal with

Darius Jones: I honestly think it like it. You mentioned that like how Yeah, the media tries to make you to think one way society tries to think you think one way because yeah, I’m Irish people used to be down with black people. Irish people used to be down with us. Um, think of like, how little how little Emily’s Little Italy started. Like they got they were sitting down there because Little Italy used to be the slums. Little Italy used to be the slums. Um, there was a, there was a good time where Italians was, um, was was prejudiced against just just as much as we were. Irish people once once. Another set of group a group of people who was um, it was deep prejudice against them. Did Japanese during World War Two deep, once again, it’s someone who was prejudiced against. And it’s just weird how these are groups that has been like, besides the Japanese, um, who have now, you know, you ain’t consider them different from white people, um, you know that their, their, their struggles and their, um, their struggles, integrating into American society, um, isn’t really talked about because in an essence, I feel like if work is succeeded, they’re definitely like, you know, when people say when people who say white people, there’s no asterisk further from you know, for Italians anymore, they used to be that asterisk there, um, in history, but that’s not the case anymore. Um, I just feel like, like you said, um, you know, we, we, we talk about, like, all these statistics and shit, and I just feel like that plays a role in how people view us, like, if you from Fuck, if you’re from Ohio, I’m not in hot Ohio, Kentucky, Kentucky is like 97% white people. So if you hear on the news of you, all you have on news black is some black guy did this, some black guy did death, and black people are three times more likely to rob your house and shoot up your dog I’m doing, you’re gonna get a natural fear of black people, because that’s you’re interacting, you’re interacting with it in your communities. Um, you don’t talk to them, you don’t see them on a daily basis. So at all your proof of how black people act is by the media and the media is telling you, oh, you know, just having a black person in the area, you’re three times more likely to get robbed, um, that hat that’s been happening throughout society. And the news never talks about why those statistics are that way, you know, they don’t talk about or at least they don’t talk about enough about the underlying systematic issues that that’s throughout our society. Um, oh, they want to, oh, they want to shoot out his, you know, eye catching headlines. But as I like I said before, that slowly, slowly, people use that as evidence to just write off every black person they see. And I just feel like those wrongs are just not corrected in today’s age. Hmm.

Quinn jones: I mean, I don’t even know if there’s something about today. I think this is something that’s always going on.

Darius Jones: Oh, no. I mean, I’m it like it’s going on. To this day. That’s what I meant. I guess. Yeah, you’re right. That’s fine. That has gone on. For Well, since by people been in America Really? I’m not even just America. It’s not me history. Truth be told. Yeah.

Quinn jones: I mean, it’s always gone on, even before black before in America, when you had when there was Africans and European countries, were trading with Africans and describe them as savages. You know, it’s, it’s going on for about as long as you can think back to, um, you know, I don’t know if it’s just, I mean, do you guys think personally, do you think that like, racism is something that can ever like be taken out of the country? Like, can we can we live in a country that’s like a, for example, like in Switzerland, everybody is the same, and they treat each other the same? And so their policies act under the assumption that everybody is the same? Do you think that America will ever get to a point where, um, black people will be almost the same as white people in a political and economic since?

Darius Jones: That’s, I feel like that’s a hard answer. I feel like today is today. No. And for a long time, I think the answer is no. I’m, I feel like I’m because there’s always is always going to be some there’s always going to be some asshole who’s trying to um, there’s always gonna be some populist, right? Someone who is trying to rally the majority against a unified cause, and it’s just so easy to pick some, some unrepresented minority And paint them as the enemy that you must all rally against. That’s happened throughout history. And I don’t think that’s something that’s going to go away anytime soon. Because it’s not just It doesn’t just happen in America, it happens throughout the world. Even unfortunately, even in African countries, it’s just more there. It’s more religious. It’s more religious than anything. But even people who are people who are who like had like native religious backgrounds are like Asha just ostracized by like, you know, Christians or Muslims. So I just think this this, um, this radicalization of like a populist group to ostracize, easily underrepresented minority is something that’s going to happen for a long, long time. And I don’t know what’s going to change that. That’s something that I just don’t think I can imagine at this point, I think it’s hard to say never, I think you can never say never, about anything, but it’s going to be something that’s super hard to, um, there’s going to be something hard to attain, because unfortunately, I just feel like with with history, the only thing that has brought people together is another enemy. If you say, I don’t like that guy, hey, I don’t like those guys, either. Let’s get together and not like this one guy. And I just feel like it’s gonna be hard to find something that unifies everyone under the same umbrella. And for a long time.

Quinn jones: So you talk about aliens now.

Darius Jones: Maybe

Quinn jones: That’s the only thing I could think off I don’t know where your going with that,

Darius Jones: I mean, cuz like, it’s like, take, take an example on this African country cause, you know, Sudanese, Sudan, Sudan, and Sudan. Um, for a while, I think the majority of the country was, was Muslims. And so other, so other minority or religious groups, like I said, the native native African religions, um, I think it was like some Christians, um, they all wanted to secede from Sudan. So that’s why there’s a South Sudan now, they, they, they broke away, I think 2013 or 2012. Um, but once they broke, once they broke off. There wasn’t a part of Sudan anymore. They’re their own country. Now, they celebrated for like, two, three years. And then now that there’s a, there’s a civil war going on up, there’s almost a civil war going on in Sudan, as we speak, because the groups that were once that once came together, um, that once came together to succeed from Sudan. They’re going against each other now. Um, and it all started because I think, um, the President was one religion, and the vice president was a second religion, and ultimately, politics can break down into ethnic polarization. So I just think what so maybe it is gonna be aliens, maybe there’s gonna be aliens, but I just think for unless we can find something that unifies everyone under one belief in one cause it’s gonna be something that’s hard to fix.

Quinn jones: Yeah, we definitely have to be something that would make people think, okay, we’re not black or white, we’re just all humans. And that would that would be the next step to, you know, getting some kind of change like that. Because, you know, now people, it’s, it’s incredible that people make up these beliefs based on the color of your skin. Like is not like, we’re so different from other people. But that’s the way that other people perceive it to be, which is, almost, is crazy for me to imagine. But that might be me talking from my perspective. Like if I was white, raised white and never seen a black person, it might, they might little, you might, I might look at myself now and be like, I have no idea what that person’s intentions are. And I think part of the issue that we have is that we even referred to each other as like black people or white people or Asian people. You know, if we Just talk about each other as people are mountains. And I think that would matter, a bit less. But that’s living in a fairy tale, right? And I’m not gonna sit here, pretend that we go all hold hands and just be happy. Because the reality is that some minority groups in America don’t have the same chances to be successful as other groups. And the reason why is because there has been long standing oppression. And that has real implications that passes down from generation to generation. Like, I would have loved to have a House passed down to me, but I don’t. Like, I would love to have a land in my name, but I don’t. And I, I recognize also that this you know, there’s white people who obviously don’t have these things, either. But, um, you know, I just feel like, widespread is just not something that we have, you know, it’s not something like I’ve never heard another person. Tell me Okay, my father’s leaving me this house. I’ve never seen that before. I mean, maybe they might leave you they rent controlled apartment.

Darius Jones: Which is glorious.

Quinn jones: Yeah, that’s, that’s, that’s about all you gonna get over on this way. Um, but you know, yeah, I just don’t I don’t see that changing anytime soon. I’m hoping for 22,500 maybe, maybe hundreds of years from now? Um, yeah, I don’t know. Race is tough. And then even tougher when you get into race and ethnicity, then you got a whole other can of worms.

Zeke: Yeah, definitely. Think of that. I think evolution will have to happen as humans evolve to being of like, Okay, cool. Because if you like, or think about it, like, we don’t have like, what race that you are on the um, like applications, they can still see them by the last thing is a first name sometimes too.

Darius Jones: Mm hmm.

Zeke: Because you guys have the last name Jones and if someone has the last name Ramírez you can see the difference? Yeah, a cultural difference.

Darius Jones: And it’s a shame that it has always been like that, like, you talked about how, um, we don’t you know, how you don’t have you don’t have generational wealth. You know, that’s unfortunately, a lot of a lot of black people do not have generational wealth. Because, unfortunately, through history through society, we have been kept down through systematic racism. And they use it, we like to not pretend how bad it used to be. Or at least, you know, the media or like society, in general. Don’t like, like to print pretend it wasn’t as bad as it used to be? Like, did you know the only cool. The only coup in America to be successful? was when I think it was, um, I think it was in North Carolina. When around the 50s. Someone could correct me if I’m wrong. I forget the year, but I think it was around the 50s. It is, or the 60s, or the 70s. It is the only cool to be successful in the United States where a lot a lot of black people were getting, was getting elected into office. And it was considered a mixed state. And Around this time, or at least it was starting to become a mixtape of a bunch of I’m sorry, you know what? No, this was way back when this is I’m saying I’m getting I’m getting yours wrong.

Quinn jones: I mean, now the only coop that I could think of what is actually that’s what I was wondering when you’re soaking because I can think of a couple of schools that have you know, it depends what you mean by work. Like you got Bacon’s Rebellion with like, indentured servants and slaves. And you know, after that, you know, many of those indentured servants started to get moved into what we now know as like whiteness. Right? And then you also have like, some slave uprisings as well.

Darius Jones: The Wilmington, Wilmington, Wilmington, I believe to have it believe it was North It was like North Carolina. And yeah, um, it was in the 1900s. It was like the 19. It was like late 1800s or early 19 1900s. So I was wrong about the year. But

Quinn jones: Talking about Wilmington insurrection of 1898?

Darius Jones: Yes, that you go were on there was it was, like I said, um, by ratio office. Um, um, I think there there black people is represented, and North Carolina’s government, um, they were starting to be elected more and more over the years. Um, this is back when the democrats were super racist, um, data and like that. And what they did was that they had, like, some militia groups come run into offices and evict black people told them just go away, don’t come back. And it got to the point where it escalated into, into what I would consider a terrorist attack. You know, terrorism is basically they want to spread fair, and they were spreading some fair. Um, and ultimately, what happened because of that, um, because of that coup attempt. North Carolina, just the entire parliament was just like, which is completely white after the after the coup. And that is considered one of the only successful schools in America, where government officials were evicted by forests. And another government was set up in its place. And is the only one that happened in on America that I know that happened on American land where government officials are by gunpoint told to get out of office, and no one does a thing.

Quinn jones: Yeah, to add a little more context, during your time, in North Carolina, there was a lot of black and white polish political figures elected into office who were known as fusions, and pretty much they will fight in towards, you know, equality. Groups of white supremacists and Democrats, um, saw it as a threat. And so they started like a little propaganda campaign. They organized, um, and so they armed themselves, and then they ran at the government officials and force forcibly made them leave office. And it even said on the article that I read that 60 to 300 people were killed during a coup. Hmm. So it was not a bloodless uprising, it was not a situation where people were asked to leave, and they just did it. Um, it actually resulted in the death of people. Um, and the interesting thing about that is, like when you think about black uprisings throughout history, and you get, you can even look to what happened this summer. Hey, do you want to look at the thing, whenever it is some type of uprising or unrest in a black community, it’s quickly stomped out. Like it’s not allowed to fester? Like you could think back to the Black Panther movements. When strategically leaders of the Black Panther movement were wiped out. You could think back to the leaders of the Civil Rights strategically, they were wiped out. You can look at Black Lives Matter What happened. When the riots started. Immediately, you saw people were Riot show to show people what the rubber bullets and you might think, Oh, well, some people were writing it, but they actually have police stations out there before the riots broke out. And if the cops were held accountable when it happened, then you would have never had all of that unrest. So I think it’s funny that you know, one of like you mentioned, one of the most successful coops in American history happens to be won by white supremacy. And I think that has something to do with the fact that throughout history, um, like political figures have not, like outright dispelled like white supremacist groups and you even seen it what are what are President Trump plans to stand back and stand by? Like, it’s gotten ridiculous to this point. Um, that’s why I just feel like like the whole racism die out, or believing that Biden being elected isn’t going to change things surrounding race is a little bit too optimistic. All you know is this is stuff that people aren’t taught. This is stuff that people are raised on. We talked about how children like us, like black children are constantly bombarded with a meat with with a certain media attention that makes us dislike our own skin. Well, you have some white people who are growing up and households, and with newspaper ads and other things that tell them that, you know, they’re in danger, their way of life is in danger. And so they turn to this white supremacy not yet. And, you know, wanting to keep the status quo alive. So as you know, this is not gonna happen anytime soon. Like, I think humans will die actually have full equality. Like, I really think that I don’t think it’s anything that’s gonna be solved anytime soon. And then sad to say, but it’s just that these beliefs are just too deep rooted. The only way that you’re going to have any kind of change like that is if people died, but you know, people have babies, they teach their babies the same thing. So I don’t see that changing anytime soon.

Darius Jones: That’s the whole reason why the Confederate see even though they got stopped out over 100 years ago, I’m in there, I the ideals are still alive. And well, because, like you said, white supremacy wasn’t stomped out as much as it should have been? Well, they were still allowed to held on to their beliefs, they was able to still teach how awesome their, their, their how awesome their Confederate soldiers were, and you know, they were this still still still argue to this day that it was just about states, right? But then when you ask them the state’s rights to do what, then that’s when it’s all you know, conversation over. Um, I just think it’s something that’s always gonna be racism is taught. And unfortunately, it’s always going to be taught because it’s going to be taught by races. Um, I I just like I said, I don’t know what the future entails, because I think it’s just hard to, it’s hard for me to imagine what’s going to be in the future like, I, I would like to believe like, you know, there’s going to be like interstellar travel, other planetary adventures, like, hundreds of years into the future, and eat well, if we get that far anyway. Um, but it’s, I think, I think there is always going to be some type of, there’s always going to be some type of racism going on some type of polarization, who’s going to be the target, that might change? You know, that might change him? Hey, it might be the robots, like, you know, we hit we discuss, we figure out how to do artificial intelligence. And then, you know, we create a bunch of intelligent robots and then the robots once and then the robots want rights. That’s the only thing I can think of. But like I said, there’s always gonna be some type of technical polarization. It’s just who’s getting it might change who’s on the receiving end. And right now, like I said, it’s, it’s just too dang easy to go like, Look, you know, what’s the poorest group in America who really can’t? I’m just there’s just like, you know, who’s who’s at the bottom of America? Because I honestly feel like it’s more of a I feel like it’s the more important fight is the difference between classes is just unfortunately, guess who has the most wealth in America? And they’re going to use and they’re going to use it is a Trump that again, got

Quinn jones: Trump definitely got money.

Darius Jones: Oh, he’s only I mean, he, me Yeah, he got money, but like that my boys in debt. I think he has more debt than cash. But, you know, when you own stuff counts, but I think paper money. I think he has more depth in there like physical cash. Yeah.

Quinn jones: I think the aim for a lot of people once you make a certain amount of money is to try and have a lot of assets rather than having a lot of cash on hand. Yeah,

Darius Jones: I guess that’s how you have the cash. Right. That’s how you get out of paying taxes. Look,

Quinn jones: That’s true. The more properties you have, the more You know, use property to get some tax. That’s why Trump only pay 750. But I pay over 750 every single check. I’m not mad about it. I’m just saying, like crazy now I’m paying more than our president and taxes every single night. Like, come on. Now, yo, there was not enough outrage about that. That’s see this is what gets me hyped about these people who support Trump, like there’s not enough outrage about him paying 750 in tax, I get it. People say, you know, a lot of wealthy people don’t really pay taxes like that. Well, I don’t care. I’m talking about Trump right now. Pretty appalling that your own president is not paying these taxes.

Darius Jones: Crazy.

Quinn jones: 

Like how you expect them people to accurately report on a income tax. And our president not even doing it? Like, come on, man. Come on, come on, is you could never convince me that there’s a reason for somebody who’s poor, to pay more taxes than somebody who is a millionaire don’t make sense to me. And you can never make it. You can never make a convincing argument about it for me. Because there’s some people who pay taxes, and those taxes take away money that they need to eat. so ridiculous. Yeah.

Zeke: I can’t even I hope is also like, what’s the solution to my attacks the poor, you like a Roman time, those that respect was money take away from the citizens. Like the revolution, and I can’t get

Darius Jones: Exactly like you just said, this is something that has always happened throughout history. It is crazy. Like, even like it you know, during during the rule of kings and queens, guess who Guess who most of the financial burdens on hold upon the working class, the poor, the broke the farmer, toe in the land, growing the bread, they got the heaviest of taxes, despite basically running the country. And it’s happening to his dad, it’s just, it’s just, it’s just interesting to see no one learned from history. It’s It’s weird. Like, everything, everything that happens today, you can easily go and say, This happened this, this year, this decade or this century, nothing that happens on the news today is nothing new. It is nothing new. And it’s the same tactics being used by the same by like, you know, by people with the same ideology. And it seems to always work and it’s just strange to see that like, how people just don’t understand, you know, the tactics that that a few people will use to exploit. Yeah, textbook.

Quinn jones: Well, you know, part of it, I think, is like fear mongering, like, think about how well or how well or you capitalism is in America. Like I go right now. And I’m on the news talking about, oh, we should give out a check to everybody who’s food insecure in America so that they can afford food. I might for the socialist or communist, because I want to get people who can afford food food. True. That’s how crazy people have become over capitalism. That is like, like, Zeke, you notice we go to Peru. People are so crazy about their money, like, like, God forbid that you want to relax a day and not worry about getting the next big internship at JPMorgan Chase or, you know, so and so like, it’s it’s very cutthroat in society. And people really don’t like, like the idea of people getting stuff provided for them. But in reality, like we just talked about, all they get him back is their tax money. Like that $2,000 that people were calling. Oh, that’s communism. You can’t do that. Bro. That’s our money. Like, they’re just like, yo, let’s give them back a fraction of their money. And then I guess, you know, McConnell was like, No, we not doing so. So now, we got some What are 600? But yo to believe in capitalism? capitalism is nuts. And the craziest part about it is, it seems like the people who hate like socialism, don’t really even know what socialism really is. They don’t because like, if you ask them questions about it, they’re just like, oh, you just want to, you know, give people money for not doing nothing. Like, it’s like, no, that’s not how it works. That’s not even how communism works. Like.

Darius Jones: I mean, communism is a sub, I would say communism is actually extreme socialism anyways, so

Quinn jones: I mean, I could see that but I felt like socialism, you can kind of it I feel like socialism is more easily implemented into a government and political system. Last communism, you need a complete overhaul of your life political systems and your economic systems for free.

Darius Jones: I actually think when people talk about communism, quote, unquote, I don’t think communism can like, I don’t think communism can even funk communism cannot function as a government. Because communism isn’t government. communism is supposed to be like, you know, the people control the means of like, you know, everything in society, it, there’s no ruling class, there is no class system, is just everyone does their part and get money accordingly. But I feel like that cannot happen as a system because it’s like, I mean, okay, everyone does what they need a society, then you’re gonna need a couple people who’s going to control the funds for you know, what, one industry or the next. And then people, you’re gonna have to collect funds for government, you know, for roads, infrastructure, and so on, and so forth. And I feel like and in trying to fix these issues that’s gonna come up with, I’m trying to implement communism, you’re gonna inherently create a government, you’re gonna have people that control the money, you’re gonna have people who rally, rally the money, and you’re gonna have people who decide what’s best done with the funds that’s collected? Congratulations, you just created the government. So I don’t think communism can can function, but it’s just weird how you just throw out the name communism, and people was just quick to shut down the conversation that in there. Yeah. And I think that’s once again, that’s something that’s, that’s like, I don’t know if that’s like, due to like, the educational system or just like, how America is. In a nutshell, but, um, like, it’s just, it’s just strange how people are willing, like you said, it is fear mongering. They had communism and socialism, and even if it’s not not to be completely beneficial to them, they’re quick to shut it down.

Quinn jones: Yeah, that’s the craziest thing is that, like, I’m on Facebook. And there’s like, working class white people telling me that they don’t want the $2,000 check.

Darius Jones: Like, you know, I’m I’m not, you know, you know, I’m

Quinn jones: I was looking forward, I’m looking forward to the right. I’m looking forward to the check, you know, because I want to invest in the market. But there’s more pressing matters, like some, some people need to check because they can’t work. Some people need to check because they can’t afford food. Some people need to check for a whole host of other things that To be honest, at the end of the day, I don’t care what you need to check. Like, as long as there’s people out there who really depends on the money, it should, it should go through, like there’s enough people struggling, there’s enough small businesses struggling in America, that we should have the $2,000 check. And honestly, the government was let off easy, right? Because many other governments around the world were given their citizens much more money. And, you know, for a long time, Americans shut up about it wasn’t going hard about actually getting stimulus checks, which again, ties into the whole I don’t want to be seen as getting a handout. You know, it’s like, this whole mentality that the government has fostered around the people, which self serves the government because it’s like, good. Y’all want no money? Great.

Darius Jones: Right?

Quinn jones: So it’s like, it’s like okay with them, right. But there’s people starving people can’t afford to live right now. People who can’t work. And this is nuts to me, like we look like we could be heading towards another shutdown. People should have got their money. That’s the bottom line. People should have got that money. It’s our money. We pay taxes. Trump don’t pay taxes. Let me see McConnell’s tax return he probably. So the way I see it, yo, Trump only pay 750 in taxes, at least give us Trump money, at least how we get less than what he paying in taxes, and he not paying nothing, man. It’s crazy to me I can Yo, the economy in this country is absurd.

Darius Jones: And I think it’s just because we keep moving the goalposts, truth be told, like people call Biden people call Biden, um, like, you know, socialists, socialists was thrown at him and Kamala threw out their presidential campaign. But policy wise Biden is actually a little bit of right leaning, it’s just that we’re willing, it’s just that they willing to throw buzzwords and fair and fair words on to whoever their opponent is, and then the gold pulls the goalposts just eventually gets moved.

Quinn jones: Yeah.

Darius Jones: You know, like, you know, just further down the line, and it’s just, I don’t know how that how that that needs to be fixed. I think we just need like, and

Quinn jones: Well, it’s like, it’s a system thing, really, because like, you even think back to like President Obama, like people, like we’re calling these people, Democrats and liberals, when actually if you look at their policies, they tend to not be that liberal, like, Bernie Sanders was liberal, you know, but most of the democrats that you see actually running for office are not Liberal Democrats. And part of the reason why is because the idea is that a liberal would support scare like half of America. So like, once you start saying, like, oh, college should be free, you turn off half the population, but then you have to count on that other half to help you out. So you got to tow that line. So all the democrats coming out, are they like centrist Really? If you think that’s that’s who the democrats are right now. And then you might have a couple who you might be like, okay, they’re a little bit of wiggle room. You know, they because you know, when you’re liberal, you want to think a little bit, you want to advocate for some type of not like structural change, because that would be radical. But you want to advocate for like, distribution of equity. And they don’t do that at all.

Darius Jones: They want to keep it all that stuff

Quinn jones: What’s up Darius.

Darius Jones: That’s it. They want to keep it all at the top. There is no Oh,

Quinn jones: It is not not only that they want to they doing it. They doing it.

Zeke: Cool. On that note? Just a good time to end the last like hour, right?

Darius Jones: Mm hmm.

Zeke: I think like also last question is what you guys name your origin stories?

Darius Jones: Um, love yourself.

Quinn jones: Damn you read my mind right now. Um, I’m gonna name on supporting cast. Because I know all my family members friends. They’re the supporting cast behind me. That lets me shine.

Zeke: Cool.

Darius Jones: I mean, yeah, minds is that I think for a long time, like I said, for a long time, I I guess I felt like I was someone with an identity that kind of in vibe with it. It took me a long time to believe the words that my grandmother would tell me all the time. I would come home crying. No, which is, you know, black is beautiful. Um, it just took me a long time to take to heart what she said. Um, and it’s still something I guess I am still um, it is still something to this day than going through stuff.

Quinn jones: You know what you need me like a mean button, like the the Deontay Wilder to this day.

Zeke: All right. Thank you for coming.

Quinn jones: Aight bro.

Darius Jones: No problem man,

Quinn jones: No problem.

Zeke: I can catch you

Zeke: That brains another episode of the Let’s Gather Podcasts to a close. I like to thank Darius and Quinn for being a guest on the podcast. For next week the last episode, my mother will make a return to the podcast. I hope continue to have a nice day and I hope to see you there.

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